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Evidence?

Discussion in 'Afterlife Evidence' started by John biscuits, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. John biscuits

    John biscuits New Member

    What is the best scientific evidence, for the afterlife? Does Quantum Physics prove the afterlife?



    Thank You.
     
    Eleven Lives likes this.
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I can't answer your first question but QP doesn't appear to prove there's an afterlife. But does it prove there's a 'now life', the life we're presently living?

    Plainly something we term 'life' is happening, however illusory some argue that life in this dimension is. Obviously we're experiencing something we think of as life and there is evidence of that. But does / can quantum physics actually prove we're alive or is life in the physical truly illusory? If so, what does 'life' mean?

    If quantum physics can't prove this life could it prove there is a life that follows it? Or precedes it for that matter?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
    Eleven Lives likes this.
  3. John biscuits

    John biscuits New Member

  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    interesting?
     
  5. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    The best "scientific" evidence is the sheer volume of verified communications from documented dead people. Even one such communication would prove that survival is possible; and the fact that these communications are so abundant, and what the dead all have to say is so consistent across communication styles and across the decades, establishes that survival is just what they say it is: easy, natural, and universal. And there you have it!
     
  6. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Quantum Physics is - I'd guess - beyond many/most of us ordinary guys and gals - it's certainly beyond my understanding. So even if it did somehow (how?) prove that there was life elsewhere other than here the likelihood is that we - definitely I - wouldn't be able to understand the physics anyway! Hence asking for scientific proof is probably pointless.

    But as Roberta points out there's an abundance of communication documented over many decades from those we think of as dead. Some will see thats for what it is to them individually and be persuaded or not. It won't be - of course - a scrap of good to anyone who's not really interested in learning that way, perhaps not sufficienly flexible in their thinking, maybe
    somebody looking for something they don't have a clue about; their 'proof' of a subject that can't be 'proven'.

    Whadya do, eh?
     
    Eleven Lives likes this.
  7. ShingingLight1967

    ShingingLight1967 Active Member

    Eleven Lives likes this.
  8. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    What did you learn ? I'm too thick to understand QP so no point in my reading the stuff....
     
  9. Eleven Lives

    Eleven Lives New Member

    Quantum mechanics is consistent with an afterlife state. The state of something depends on the observer. Look at Schrödinger’s cat in its box in the Copenhagen interpretation. Kitty sure knows whether she’s alive or dead, but to you, outside her box, she’s both alive and dead, with some nonzero probability for each choice, until you lift the lid to collapse Kitty’s wave function and force her to occupy one of the two states.

    In the many-worlds interpretation, two worlds, one in which Kitty is alive and the other in which she’s dead, branch off as soon as the experiment starts. Either way, you’ve got live cats in your picture. It’s the same way with people and their souls.

    Then there’s Roger Penrose, microtubules and Quantum consciousness. That’s another beast in the field altogether. Personally, I’d say the physics of QM itself has no opinion on the matter, but nature doesn’t like stuff being deleted for no reason. Einsteinian mass-energy is a conserved quantity; it can’t be created from nothing, nor destroyed if present. Why should our minds be subject to vanishing into nonexistence at the moment of death?

    The sudden zeroing out of a mind at death would release the pressure that mind exerts on nearby material particles, and the particles would rebound elastically in response. We observe no such thing in the vicinity of dying people, although more sensitive measurements of recoil might be in order here. Therefore, it seems likely that mind is still there, exerting its pressures, after the body it was dwelling in has died. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  10. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    The opener asked if quantum physics proves there's an afterlife. We have abundant evidence of course but what would constitute proof of something occurring in another dimension altogether, an environment we have no direct contact with?

    Do we even know if quantum physics applies there? Or would it matter if it doesn't? Simply please in your own words for preference.... ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    Eleven Lives likes this.
  11. Eleven Lives

    Eleven Lives New Member

    QM doesn’t attempt to prove the existence of an afterlife state—you’re correct there, as it’s taking place on one or more unfolded dimensions “above” our plane. Schrödinger’s cat is a bit hard to account for in a deterministic cosmos without spirits, as is quantum nonlocality, where an event in my lab can have instantaneous effects on the Andromeda galaxy.

    Now that’s faster than light; Andromeda is two million light-years distant, so the little green men there training ultra-powerful telescopes toward the Earth are just now seeing Homo habilis bang away at the world’s first stone axes. Let’s say they get on the horn to tell us what they see. It will take another 2 million years for their signal to reach us—and we might not be around to pick up the phone in AD 2076890. Light-time and lookback are mind-boggling: Hubble can see remote galaxies and quasars as they were 12 billion years ago.

    Quantum nonlocality violates classical physics and relativity alike; in those two fields, observers can reconcile their notebooks with one another to synchronize their clocks—there’s always that 2-million year lag to add in. Simultaneity doesn’t exist between observers separated by intervening space. Yet in QM a thing happens in both galaxies at the same time. Is that how those spirits are getting around?

    I cannot say whether spirit communication depends on QM. All you get in QM are the equations, which are time-symmetric, universal, and give no clues regarding interpretation. We have Copenhagen and Many Worlds. Some stuff on quantum nonlocality here:

    Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_nonlocality

    Scientific American
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-einstein-revealed-the-universe-s-strange-nonlocality/

    PhysOrg
    https://phys.org/news/2012-01-quantum-physicists-entanglement-nonlocality.html
     
  12. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I asked: "Do we even know if quantum physics applies there? Or would it matter if it doesn't? Simply please in your own words for preference.... " Could you please KISS - keep it simple sweetie - for dumbos like me.

    And neither the original questioner nor myself asked if it attempts to prove the existence of an afterlife. ;)
     
  13. Eleven Lives

    Eleven Lives New Member

    For the simple version, imagine a two-dimensional world, Flatland, where the inhabitants are aware of time passing but not the roomy third dimension right above them. Jack wants to enter the interior of a circle. He can do so only by crossing its circular perimeter wall, perhaps through a gate. But we 3-D fellas could drop right into the middle of the circle without touching the wall.

    If you’re talking about extra dimensions beyond our three plus time, then it’s the same for 4-D beings. They can drop into the interior of a football without going through the pigskin, coming “down” from “above” using their extra fourth dimension.

    A nice geometric 1884 novel can be found at
    Edwin A. Abbott (adapted by Suzanne Fox Buchele, 2006)
    The Story of Flatland: An Adventure in Many Dimensions
    http://www.southwestern.edu/academics/bwp/pdf/2006bwp-buchele.pdf
    ~
     
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    way too complex :confused: ;)
     
  15. Eleven Lives

    Eleven Lives New Member

    Yup. Complex, and I don’t know how to simplify it further. It took me years to learn. Basically, you start with plane geometry in 8th grade, move up to solid geometry (3 dimensions), and then geometry of curved surfaces (like a globe depicting the world).

    The surface geometry’s the hardest, because a surface is basically two-dimensional, but it’s embedded in a third dimension—like on a sphere. Then there are three-dimensional manifolds embedded in 4-D, where you can’t rely on visualization anymore. But you can use math to handle it.
     
  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I think I'm seeing a pattern.
     
  17. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I think you're doing very well with this, Eleven Lives! Welcome to ALF!!
     

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