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Escaping "God"(Is reincarnation forced?)

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by connectro, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. Wazzup forumites. Just wanted to share some thoughts I've had lately.
    First off: I'm agnostic when it comes to the occult and afterlife(although I have some preferred theories on what may happen after death) but I can't say I really KNOW anything. This is just pure speculation on my part and is posed to those that believe in reincarnation.

    Anyway...
    I've read a bit about different belief systems that incorporate reincarnation and what I've gotten out of it is:

    1. You die
    2. The soul goes to a non-physical plane that is shaped entirely by your thoughts
    3. It spend some time there(49 days according to tibetan buddhism)
    4. It returns to the ****-hole Earth and reincarnates in order to "learn more and advance spiritually"
    5. Repeat until you manage going back to "The Source"

    But...

    What if I don't wanna learn more? What if I want to "drop out of school" and live in an awesome dreamland for all eternity?
    Is it possible?
    Are we forced to reincarnate? Or is it a choice?

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Welcome to AfterlifeForums! We're glad to have you here! Firstly, before I address your specific questions and concerns, I just want to mention that our answers here are based on evidence, not religion or philosophy. Everything that I tell you below can be proven through 150+ years of scientific research and after-death communication. That's one of the wonderful things about the afterlife: we don't have to believe, we can know!

    Your ideas about what happens after death are pretty accurate. If you look through some of the older threads here, you will find a lot of great information about the period in between lives, what the afterlife is actually like, and reincarnation - all of which would probably be of interest to you.

    The evidence tells us that we all will continue to learn and grow until we have rejoined the Source/God. The evidence also indicates that this is because we all want to learn! No one forces us to go through this, we choose to. When we die, most of us enter an earthly paradise, known as the Summerland. It is like this world, but void of anything negative. We can do whatever we want there for as long as we want there. There are endless activities in which we can partake.

    Sooner or later though, we all get bored with relaxing and doing nothing and feel that we are ready to continue learning and growing. So, we get back to work. Sometimes, that means reincarnating, but other times it doesn't. No one will ever force you reincarnate, but eventually, if you need to reincarnate again, you will want to do it. Now, when you die, you may find out that your spiritual path doesn't necessitate any more earthly lifetimes, and that you can complete the rest of your journey in the Summerland, but there's no way to know for sure whilst still on earth.

    Becoming God again happens when we have become perfect, like He is perfect. Eventually, no matter long it takes, everyone of us will except that fact and embrace God. If you are uncomfortable with that idea now though, then please put it aside for the time being. After you die, for as long as it pleases you, you can enjoy your heavenly paradise.
     
  3. Identity

    Identity Inactive

    Hi!

    HAHAHAHA, we appreciate your sheer exuberance to be here. Welcome abroad!

    I think Andrew elaborated on the subject matter. But just to add, there is more than one way to learn a lesson, and understand empathy. You do not have to take the most painful route per say, and suffer to learn. I also speculate that as the universe expands, there may be more versions of existence and more life taking place so that we can simply play out any stories we want. However, some may choose to be one with source, and be all that is instead of one possibility. I don't think it gets boring at that stage and you come back but rather that at that point, you will not be an individual you, and other souls may be formed to experience other realms and lessons, and I assume that this process goes forever. I could be wrong, but it's my theory. Maybe Andrew can give some insights.
     
  4. Thanks for the answer!
    Well, I don't wanna get into an ideological battle here. Let's just say that I'm a "skeptical philosopher" that simply questions everything rather than trying to find all the answers.

    I guess that makes sense. What is there possibly to achieve when you got everything, right?


    Define "perfect".

    More opinions anyone?
     
  5. Don't really understand what you mean here
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  6. Identity

    Identity Inactive

    Hi!

    I meant that some might choose to be God or source and know everything and be in the state of pure oneness, while others may still choose to linger around and play other stories or come back to Earth and enjoy life. I have read that once you go to higher realms, your communications with Earth will be impossible as you become more or more closer to God. Once you become God, I think you are one with all of existence. There may still be separation as more and more newer souls form and go on their own adventures.
     
  7. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Jesus would be a good example of someone who was nearly perfect. Just to clarify, none of this is my opinion. It is all perfectly consistent with the copious amounts of evidence that I have studied. We try to stay away from posting opinions most of the time and stick to the facts.
     
  8. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Based upon all the afterlife evidence, dear Connectro, apparently "perfect" means infinitely loving and completely forgiving. The more we improve our ability to love and forgive, the more perfect we are going to be! Frankly, I suspect that there is more to it than that, but that's about all that we can see from our earthly perspective....
     
  9. Carol and Mikey

    Carol and Mikey Golden Hearts

    "Perfect" to Mikey means this (and he is in Heaven) :
    It is when we reach Absolute Pure Love which is Infinite = God. This is the Celestial Plane of Heaven! 7th Heaven! Sounds good to me!
    Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"
     
  10. Could I examine some of this evidence?
     
  11. Birki

    Birki Member

    You can start examining evidence by reading. There are a lot of resources available, a number of good ones are listed at http://funofdying.com/resources/study-guides/.
     
  12. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi! Yes, absolutely! Birki has posted a link to Roberta's website, which lists about sixty books that you could look into. They are organized by specific death-related topics. You may also want to read Roberta's book, The Fun of Dying, which provides a comprehensive overview of the afterlife. Another great book, that is filled with scientific evidence, is Your Eternal Self, by Dr. R. Craig Hogan. His book can be read for free online. I would personally recommend starting with these two, and then seeing what specific topics interest you from there.

    Good luck!
     
  13. Since we are talking science here I'd rather have some links/pdf documents of serious, detailed, independent studies with a large number of test subjects regarding the afterlife/incarnation, that I myself can follow up on and investigate. These studies should of course have results that can be confirmed and experienced empirically(in person) by any third-party.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2012
  14. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    If that is what you are looking for, then start with Your Eternal Self, it is full of such studies, and there are citations of all the sources, if you feel the need to view the original data. As I said above, the book, which is really a compilation of studies and experiments, can be read online for free at YourEternalSelf.com.
     
  15. Stating theories as scientific fact with no independent and scientifically credible basis to back it up and prove them as such makes this Hogan fellow neither a scientifically credible or independent source of information.

    Don't forget about this part on your next try
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Have you read the information that Dr. Hogan has available online? I mean actually read it, not just glanced at it? If you have, then it should be plain that Hogan offers countless examples of independent researchers (sometimes multiple ones, from different sides of the world) coming to the conclusions that he discusses, based on the evidence in his book. And, if you search for it, you can easily find the studies he is quoting.

    One thing I should make clear to all our readers here is that Dr. Hogan is an extremely professional, reliable, and valuable person. His research in the afterlife field is all done extremely professionally, and has a solid basis in fact. There are many examples of experienced, independent, third-party researchers confirming what he reports.

    This website's resource section also has links to several scientific organizations. Maybe you could check that out if you're still unconvinced?

    I don't know if you meant this to sound sarcastic and arrogant but, from the perspective of the reader, it can be taken that way. In the future, I would ask that you offer more respect, towards the members of this website, and researchers like Dr. Hogan.
     
  17. Skimming through the first couple chapters and bibliography shows me only anecdotes, crackpot theories and research that proves nothing either way(other than maybe the brain playing tricks on people). You however know more about this book than me. Point out a couple of the most convincing parts and research articles and help me believe.

    Me sounding arrogant or not has nothing to do with the sincerity of the request. Give me evidence concerning the afterlife/reincarnation that can be empirically observed and experienced. Everything according to scientific principle. Can you do that or not?
     
  18. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I don't know the most convincing pages and information off the top of my head, so I will look into that and get back to you. I'll will also look into the footnotes and bibliography to see if I can find you some actual studies and research. Are you looking for information on reincarnation as well, because that is a completely different field?

    I never said that sounding arrogant had anything to do with the sincerity of your request. But, we are a very mellow, polite forum typically. It is extremely important to us (the staff) that our members be treated with respect. I'm not saying that you have to agree with what we say here, but if you don't, you have to express your opinions in a polite, non-derrogatory manner.
     
  19. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear Connectro, all of us would love to see independent scientific verification! The evidence is abundant, consistent, and overwhelming, and a few researchers have experimented successfully, but so much of the evidence is still anecdotal. So, what is the problem? Here are some issues:

    1) Mainstream scientists are still stuck in what turns out to be an erroneous concept of reality. Early quantum physicists Sir James Jeans famously said, "The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine," and he was precisely right. Reality is not a solid, stable clockwork at all, and quantum physicists have understood that basic fact for a hundred years; but mainstream science is still (to be frank) so paralyzed with fear at the possibility of finding God that quantum physicists have wasted the past century exploring ever weirder theories to explain their calculations in order to avoid examining the theory that Occam's Razor would suggest is most likely right: consciousness is all that exists, and everything else that seems to be real is a product of consciousness. Sir James Jeans, Max Planck, and their fellows were precisely right (more about Max Planck below)! But today, the founders of quantum theory are venerated in name only, since scientists are still trying to disprove their conclusions.

    2) Mainstream scientists are ignorant of the "hygiene" needed to do this work. It's as if some nineteenth-century investigator were trying to better understand basic germ theory without first washing his flasks! Since consciousness is fundamental, the mindset of the researcher is as basic to doing this work as is clean equipment to studying diseases. And nearly all scientists pride themselves on cultivating a skeptical mindset that absolutely guarantees that no matter how carefully they set up their experiments, they are going to turn up goose eggs.

    3) To study the greater reality requires the assistance of people who are already there. Every successful effort to do any sort of afterlife investigation requires that a team of dead experts set up to work with you, and you cannot fool those folks. Communicating across vibratory frequencies is very hard - nearly impossible! - and it requires a great deal of work on their part. Unless they know from reading researchers' minds that they are (a) open-minded, (b) absolutely sincere, and (c) able to devote many years of their lives to working with the teams that are considering setting up to work with them, then no dead expert is going to bother with them. Again: goose eggs.

    Yes, dear wonderful Connectro, it would be great if investigating the greater reality were easier! R. Craig Hogan, whose work you disparage, is an earnest and pure-minded researcher who has given his life to this study; and indeed he would literally give his life if in doing that he could produce sufficient evidence to convince you. He is as sincere and dedicated as all get-out, and he has great teams working with him... but because you don't yet understand how this works, you would still prefer to watch clueless Ph.D.s continue to founder and get nowhere. Please open your mind, dear friend! The truth turns out to be so simple.

    The immortal Max Planck won a Nobel Prize in 1918 as the father of quantum physics. Had those who professed to follow him ever really listened to him, then the dead teams would fifty years ago have found some living scientists to work with them, and all of this would have become common knowledge long since. Quoting Max Planck:

    “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” (1931)

    “As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: there is no matter as such.

    “All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
    (1944)
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  20. I, too, am in agreement with Max Planck that some kind of intelligent mind is behind all of this. It seems like this is the most plausible explanation to me. Although others think that there is no such thing as the afterlife due to them believing it's the most plausible explanation.

    If the physical universe came from The Big Bang and so came about from a small dot, then where did that dot come from?
     
  21. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I am still puzzled as to how mainstream scientists explain this away, but the general populous seems to buy their arguments, for now.
     
  22. Yeah, Stephen Hawking went from saying that he believed in God (or some kind of creator), to saying that God isn't needed to explain our existence and that the universe came "from nothing."

    I got to admit, this is a hard concept to grasp from Hawking. No atoms, no subatomic particles, and then all of a sudden there was "something."
     
  23. Identity

    Identity Inactive

    Well, this is a tough one, but a fun one for me too. As a former atheist, I read God: The Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist by physicist Victor Stenger, and did find sufficient evidence to say that the universe can simply come out of nothing. Existence itself is probabilistic. The expansion of the universe, as well as the formation of virtual particles are all probabilistic rather than pre-determined. Same goes with evolution. It occurs through biological changes rather than God intending it separately or us choosing the exact science before we incarnate.

    However, that does not mean that there is no God. The biggest enigma in my mind is consciousness. When you observe life in the most basic bacteria, you see that it emerges as a result of a chemical reaction. Fair enough. The philosophical debate comes when you realize that life observes. Why does life observe? Why does life ponder? Why does life have this self awareness which is not common in machines? A camera does not find meaning in anything it films, yet we do. It is true that we choose to walk and do this or that, but even our immune system runs to defend us without us intending it or choosing it. We are complex since countless cells join together to run us. Cells die and new are formed yet we are seldom consciously aware of the process.

    The physical brain itself is an enigma. Memories are holographic. No specific part contains the memory but rather the whole brain has all the memories. Then there is non-duality in human dna. Separate a minor piece of dna from the human body, and it still reacts to the emotions faced by the human source. Like a wireless network, dna is connected even if it is separated. The subconscious mind knows before the conscious mind as well. In one experiment, the subject was able to react to a picture before even seeing it. There were two sets. One positive and one negative. Before even physically seeing it, the subjects reacted according to the pictures, further implying that we may be living in a holographic universe and going through life like a cassette tape being played. Beckster found that plants can read thoughts and react if negative thoughts were being projected.

    All of this eludes me, but I do know I will have a blast uncovering all of this in the afterlife.

    [video=youtube;N6S9OidmNZM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6S9OidmNZM[/video]
     
  24. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Thank you for posting this video, dear Identity. Such nonsense!! Note how the incurious and oblivious young researcher glibly explains that your consciousness is generated by your brain, as if that were an explanation for his results, when clearly it is not. Such fools these science proles are!

    As part of my research for The Fun of Dying, I needed to better understand how human consciousness so easily survives physical death. I had abundant evidence that it does survive. But, how? It turns out that human consciousness does not reside in the brain at all, but rather your brain is just a receiver and transmitter with maybe the level of local processing ability that you have in your cellphone. "You" use this body very much as the hero in the movie Avatar uses his blue likeness. In effect, your brain is just a two-way radio in the head of a meat-robot ;-). So your brain makes few if any of your decisions. Instead, you make decisions in your higher consciousness, and you then transmit them to your brain and body. So your body is preparing to move that finger before your brain makes you aware of having decided to move it, which is the true explanation of this fool researcher's results. You can see this happening in your own life, too! Very often you are thinking about doing something - getting out of bed, for example - and then you find yourself doing it without having first thought that this was going to be the actual moment. You don't seem to choose the moment, and you don't consciously think, "Left leg to the edge of the bed - now right leg - now over the edge and find the floor - now elbow sits me up...." If you had to do all that consciously, your life would be impossibly cumbersome! Indeed, you have free will, dear friends; it's just that "you" are not in that body at all!

    Watch the video to see what we are up against in trying to bring a clue or two to a clueless world....
     
  25. Identity

    Identity Inactive

    HAHAHAHA, I have been in polar opposites from being religious to being a downright atheist. I try to think that we as a society must join a group or feel like we belong. The scientists can only speculate based on what they know, but had they researched nde's, studied about consciousness, and read more books that are not mainstream, they would be able to understand more. The few books I have read, are written by journalists who simply wanted to study the unconventional. They had nothing to lose, and no one would judge them for their views.

    The movie Dark Matter convey's an excellent point on how some scientists are not willing to accept anything new or different, but only what they can relate to.

    Exactly! The brain is a receiver, and somehow before we even choose consciously, it seems the brain chooses or gets that information. That does make me wonder if we are really living in the present or simply playing out what has already been predetermined. Free will is out of the question since we are meant to survive and expand, so if we keep making conscious decisions all the time, we wouldn't be able to handle the stress.

    The conundrum is that once the brain dies, the consciousness is remembers all the information of the brain. Not only that, but we do not recall immediately everything before we chose to incarnate. I used to think that after the limited brain collapses, consciousness simply goes back to source with all the information. Instead it still has a form of energy, and is separate from others. Would love to figure that out one day.

    Thanks for the input! Gladly appreciate it.
     
  26. Nirvana

    Nirvana Member

    "When the person reached me we spoke through thought. He told me that it was not my time to enter into my heavenly home but had a mission to fulfill and my life was going to be very hard. That I would go through many terrible experiences to the point of wanting to commit suicide but if I committed suicide I would not be allowed to come home."

    ^http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/don_c_nde.htm
     

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