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Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by jimrich, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Roberta, the one mind concept lines up with the Hindu concept of Advaita = not two or simply Oneness or Unity Consciousness - concepts that are very difficult and threatening to many Westerners. One mind/self/me terrifies the personal ego who wants to go on and on as a separate "special" someone or person no matter what! Oh well...
    I am finally learning the hard way to keep my contacts with disincarnates a secret and refrain from telling others that a disincarnates is here when I notice one. Others react badly to such info and can become frightened or jealous of my realizations. They don't want nor need to know that a dead person is present so I just clam up about it. We are going to a dead friend's funeral today and the dead one has already paid me a friendy visit but I"ve said nothing to anyone about the visit. Oh weii, so be it. Imo, more people would and could have contact with the dead BUT the frightened ego cannot handle it. The ego is just too fragile and vulnerable to accpt such a threatening reality so DENIAL is the ego's best defense. It's OK. The dead are doing just fine with or without recognition and honor.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  2. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Jimrich, our egos fight for their own survival as we continue to grow spiritually, and what they seem generally to do is to make us fear our own extinction. Heh - but it is really THEIR extinction they are fighting! As I did ACIM and got to the point called "the extinction of the ego," I became terrified that I was going to lose awareness, but no need to worry! Eventually I woke up one morning feeling a profound peace, and I heard a voice say, "You will never lose awareness. You will have God's awareness." And that did it for me! From that day forward, I never have feared anything. You don't need the ego, and it isn't you at all. It is a primitive feature of this temporary body. You are much better off without it!
    kim marine and Kurt like this.
  3. ForeverAutumn

    ForeverAutumn New Member

    I can't help feeling a bit sorry for the poor ego. One way of looking at it is that it's doing what it's meant to do, a bit like the satnav when you're driving a car. It's a useful item of software but it has its limits!

    What the ego cannot understand, perhaps (because it's not equipped to do so) is the true nature of reality. Death and loss, from the ego's perspective, is terrifying because it means oblivion, "going off the map". Switching analogies, it's like a small infant who thinks his mother has vanished forever, when she's just walked into another room for a moment.

    What if each of us was simultaneously "one" (with one another, with our oversoul, with God) and distinct as an individual? This would be in line with the Buddhist idea of Indra's Net, or the grid of pearls, each one valued and loved as an individual gem in its own right, yet each one reflecting all the others (the hologram, of course, being a modern take on this idea). So the individual is not destroyed and still remains the individual - but paradoxically is also every other individual and the totality (God).
    Storybud68, Kurt and pandora97 like this.
  4. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    The joke is that there is NO ego or separate individual anywhere. All there is is energy or Life happening. BTW, you don't "have awareness" - you ARE awareness or consciousness or Life or whatever else you might label your self. The separate, egoic self and all apparently separate forms are a total illusion embraced and included in the Whole or Totality that is You. You are all that there is. I assume that ACIM showed you and others this easily observable fact. There is only one "thing" here and it's You. The ego is terrified of this simple fact because it might mean the end of the so-called separate self or ego. Oh well....... The ego does not, never did and never will exist except as an imagined entity. Look deeply within to find this "ego" and it cannot be found.
    Kurt likes this.
  5. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Heh - it's a satnav ;-). Good analogy!

    What seems to be the case is that the ego is part of the package with which we are born, and we have it because without it we would still be too attached to home, which is of course so much better that we would want to go right back! It seems to be the ego's job to (a) reinforce that this illusion is real, (b) make us want to protect the body and fear its extinction, and (c) make us feel grabby and self-important, perhaps as a way to sharpen the life-lessons that we are about to begin. Our true selves, of course, are the opposite of the way the ego makes us feel! And while it is necessary to have an ego early in life, I did the ACIM extinction-of-the-ego process rather late in life so I can tell you that losing the ego does make a huge difference. And a wonderful one! I'll enumerate some of the ways that I feel different now:

    1) I used to be at least somewhat fearful. I knew that life is eternal, but still on occasion worries would ambush me.

    From the moment I lost the ego, I have never experienced even an instant's fear about anything!

    2) I used to have a big and troublesome need to feel important. I recall, for example, one birthday in my latter twenties when no family member or friend called me and nobody seemed to care, and I was very upset by the end of the day. I was bitterly ranting to my poor, patient husband about it up to the moment when we entered our house late that afternoon, and everyone I loved jumped out and yelled "Surprise!" I even had some ego issues with watching experts in this field getting accolades when it appeared to me that I knew more than they did.

    From the moment I lost the ego, I have not had the slightest interest in or need for accolades at any level. I want others to have them; I don't need them. I'll be going home soon, and just going home is going to be all the reward I will need! And I can love people now who don't really love me back, and it's fine. I feel as if I shed love now as a violet sheds its fragrance, even on the heel that crushes it. There is such joy in feeling this way!

    3) I realize now that the way I felt back then was erratic. I had things to prove, there were things that I wanted, there was a general air of uncertainty that seemed to underlie my life. All of this felt normal to me! It was who I was and who I always had been. 90% of success is showing up. Fake it 'til you make it.

    From the moment I lost the ego, I have never been uncertain or stressed or worried about anything! All that I do is in the hands of Spirit, I am a little pencil in God's hand, and I want only what Spirit wants. I am joyous in service, and I feel not diminished but infinitely greater in knowing that none of this is about me at all! I recommend this stage of life very highly, and I very much recommend ACIM as a part of your spiritual growth. I don't think I ever was completely happy in my life until after I lost that little ego-monkey forever. Try it!

    And ForeverAutumn, thank you for sharing the Grid of Pearls idea. It appears from the evidence that indeed something like that is what is going on, and each of us is inextricably part of the Whole - the base creative force - and our sense of individual awareness never ends. Thomas told me on the morning when I woke up to find my ego gone that I would never lose awareness - "You will have God's awareness." I am confident now that is wonderfully right!!
    kim marine, Nirvana and pandora97 like this.
  6. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Roberta, please do not read this as an attack, challenge or insult but, re: "I am a little pencil in God's hand, and "I want only what Spirit wants."
    Is this 'I' just another aspect of the ego, i.e. "I (the ego) am a little pencil.."..."and "I (the ego) want only..."...? Is it possible that your ego continues on in a disguised and modified fashion? It's OK to have an ego so long as the ego does not HAVE us but the ego is very subtle and cleaver and can wear a disguise in certain situations and it's best disguise is to appear as someone (the ego) who lost or got rid of their ego. LOL, this could be my ego saying this!
    In my experience, the ego cannot be "lost forever" but it can be "seen through" whenever it appears which gives me the power to stop the ego from taking me over and running my life on it's unhealthy terms. For me, psychology did the best job of showing me what my ego is and how to manage it so it cannot mess up my life anymore. It's a constant struggle but it gets easier and easier to catch my ego BEFORE it takes over. Re: ACIM (a course in miracles), use whatever works but don't think that your ego has been lost or killed or it will kick you from behind when you least expect it.
    I read this as: You (the ego) will have God's awareness. I'd say that you (anyone/thing) ARE awareness (even if you don't know it). The ego can act like it has "God's awareness" but it's still the same old ego - in disguise. Don't let the tricky ego fool you.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
  7. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    There's nothing wrong with having an ego; it is a normal part of being human. It becomes wrong/dangerous/unhealthy/etc. only when the ego is allowed to run roughshod over everything and control everything in life without being held in check. It is necessary to have balance.
    jimrich and Kurt like this.
  8. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I would have agreed with most of what you've said, Jimrich, until I experienced it. I think our problem in discussing this is the limitations of our language - we don't have a separate word for who we truly are, so my necessary use of the personal pronouns tricks you into believing the ego has remained. My hunch is that it is your own ego that makes you need to think this way, since if I can convince you that you, too, can grow beyond it, that grubby little thing will die! So, let's make up a new pronoun. One day it will be part of the English language to have two different pronouns; but for now, I am afraid, we are stuck with one. But please do not for a moment let your own ego trick you into thinking that you cannot entirely shed it!

    Now that I have been through the ACIM extinction of the ego, I can assure you that:

    (a) There is indeed a grabby and fearful little ego thing that is not who you are, but that literally drives your mind from birth. It makes you think it is you, but it is not you. And once you have grown a bit spiritually, it seems to be a necessary part of the growth process for you to shed that unnecessary aspect so you can shed the fear that it obsesses you with and begin to more fruitfully grow in love.

    (b) There is indeed a genuine "I" (or a "You") that is who you truly are. It is eternal, perfect love, and it is who you were before you were born and who you will be eternally. What feels miraculous to me is that once you shed the earth-based ego, it STAYS shed - it doesn't come back! - and literally EVERYTHING is different.

    Nice try, Jimrich's ego! You need to convince him that I couldn't lose the ego because you are terrified that he might come to understand that he can lose you, too. But he can. And he will be much the better and happier for it!
    Nirvana and Kurt like this.
  9. Kurt

    Kurt Well-Known Member

    But is the ego even a bad thing? What about Max Stirner?
  10. Kurt

    Kurt Well-Known Member

    What is your opinion on Max Stirner?
  11. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I have no opinion. Don't know who he is. But - yes - the ego is something you've got to put aside if you want to grow spiritually. It has no value past a certain point in your spiritual development, but instead it acts as a fear-based drag.
    Kurt likes this.
  12. Nirvana

    Nirvana Active Member

    from an Enlightened reddit user: "Consciousness, under the belief it is a "persona", is afraid of its own absolute freedom and majesty. Unable to accept its own perfection, consciousness clings to its delusion that it is a speck in its own infinite creation. If consciousness continues to cling to the perspective of a "person" it can never realise its own inherent pure being. Only when consciousness becomes fearless enough, courageous enough, to drop the mental approach to existence and instead step out into the spontaneous unknown void will it realise it's chains have only been its imagination."
    Kurt, jimrich and pandora97 like this.
  13. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Roberta, I don't know who or what this "we" is in your comment but I definitely know who/what I am and how to discuss this despite the "limitations of our language". It's really quite simple. A small 'i' refers to someone's mortal, limited, personal and temporary self. A big 'I' refers to the immortal, eternal, impersonal and divine Self. And self (small s) refers to the small, mortal self/ego while Self (big S) refers to big, immortal (ego-less) Self. Also, 'you' (small y) refers to the little you while 'You' (large Y) refers to the big You. In the far east there are many words to describe who we "truly are" but such words are rare in the West where most folks are totally convinced that they are nothing more than a limited, temporary person, in a temporary body, living a short life between birth and death as - an egoic someone. The Hindu teachings in Advaita can explain all of this better than I (and ACIM, in my opinion). If ACIM states that there is "only one" here, it is absolutely true to the best of my current knowledge and experience. There is only one: energy, being, life, presence, self, state, mind or whatever it is called.
    My hunch is that it's your own ego talking about "convincing" me of such and such The ego is not a "grubby little thing". The ego is a valuable asset if managed correctly and a terrible problem if allowed to run amuck like many of the criminals we see in the world and at the white house. To think that one has lost or killed their ego is both dangerous and extremely foolish because the ego can re-emerge in many horrifying ways such as in those Catholic PEDIFILE priests who molested innocent kids while their equally sick-ego superiors looked the other way.-
    IMO, we already have adequate pronouns for identity = you/You, i/I, that/That, he/He/, she/She, it/It and so on but, due to egoic fears, these more accurate pronouns may never appear in common use so long as most folks firmly believe that they are simple an isolated, temporary, FRIGHTENED, little person/ego. It's too bad that our culture cannot let all of us know that we are Divine Being or simply Nothing. But that would seriously upset the ego in most people.
    Said by the ego? Please don't let your own ego trick you into thinking that it's gone now. It ain't gone, IMO!
    Of course it's not you/me. There is no actual ego! It's an illusion that we are conditioned to adopt in early childhood to deal with our parents and others. And we go on believing in this false self with out ever asking: who/what am I? With no ego to color your identity, please tell us who/what You Your self are.
    Is this your own reality or just a guess from and about You? It sure sounds good, if it's true.
    "Different" in what way? I've seen the re-appearance of many wise folks egos, including yours, and each time their ego makes waves or causes trouble for them and those around them. IMO and experience, the ego can never be eliminated but it can be tamed.
    This is said by Roberta's defensive/offensive ego. Now Roberta's upset/defensive ego is openly showing it's true colors for all here to see, IMO.
    Again, said by Roberta's defensive/offensive ego as a parting shot to put Jim's ego in it's place. And you want me and others to believe your ego is DEAD? Is this an example of your "eternal, perfect love"? LOL, I don't see it. I see an angry, defensive counter attack here.
    I see no point in continuing a discussion which will most likely lead to more insults, judgements and attacks with no solution in sight. I'd be happy to discuss this or anything else with you IF you would just stop with the put-downs, judgements, lectures and "wiser than thou" attitude. It's your forum so you obviously have no limits on what you can and will say to others and how you can and will say it. Oh well, that's life. To each their own - but not if you are merely a member here. The ice is pretty thin over here, IMO.
    Kurt likes this.
  14. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    IMO, no, the ego is neither bad nor good. It's just a tool we are given early in life to deal with others and other things. Sometimes this ego benefits us but most often it harms us in the name of protecting and helping us. The ego needs to be tamed or controlled so it cannot mindlessly run amuck. I have no idea who Max Stirner is.
    Kurt likes this.
  15. Kurt

    Kurt Well-Known Member

    Max Stirner, Ayn Rand, Albert Camus among others believed that the ego is supressed and that Altruism is ruining the world and suppressing people.

    Because of the poison of Altruism, the only way to solve it is to embrace your ego and care for yourself.

    Then again, this is purely political...
  16. pandora97

    pandora97 Well-Known Member

    Oh, please...……….:rolleyes:
    Kurt likes this.
  17. ForeverAutumn

    ForeverAutumn New Member

    Here's another analogy. I'm sure we've all been in a store and witnessed a toddler having a meltdown when he or she has seen some sweeties and wants them now this minute, but the parent has said no! (Maybe some of us have once been that parent!) I think this is a good illustration of the ego. The toddler has started to develop his identity as an individual, and has discovered he has wants that demand to be satisfied but has not yet gained much in the way of maturity.

    The voice of the ego is like that small child yelling "I want sweeties now!" (desire) or "Why can't I have sweeties? I hate you!" (anger/fear). The parent who says no in a firm but loving way is conditioning the child to grow up in a world where it is okay to have desires but not always okay to have all of them satisfied now this minute. The mum knows that if her child was aware he could demand and get sweets all the time, he would become a little monster.

    As adults, we don't behave like toddlers now (in most cases...) but there might still be an internalised voice that sometimes demands "I want sweeties" (or money or status or a Ferrari). However, we can now recognise that voice when we hear it, and behave like that loving parent who is able on occasion to say no.

    Maybe that inner voice could be permanently silenced - I'm not entirely sure. But I think it can be recognised and acknowledged, when we hear it, and overruled in a loving way, and that might be enough.
    jimrich likes this.
  18. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I am not going to argue with you. I will only state one more time for the open-minded and objective readers here that your theories do not comport with either A Course in Miracles or my own experience. I think your insistence that you must be the final authority on this is creepy, to say the least, and your naked attempts to provoke me to a petty anger are ridiculous. Based upon everything I know, you are wrong in what you say, but I understand your need not to believe me. Please enjoy having it your way in your own life, Jimrich, but you would be wiser not to believe that you have the ability to perceive in others emotions and perspectives that are sadly all your own.
    pandora97 and Kurt like this.
  19. Kurt

    Kurt Well-Known Member

    I have been silent for far to long out of fear that I will be banned for slapping people with a slab of common Sense. However, the de facto leader of the website, the website owner herself has spoken.... Thus will I give my honest opinion about these walking water cannons and their torrential flood of nonsense :

    That is the issue with psychology and the hordes of idiots deluded by it.

    If you can seriously buy into Freud's theory about maternal instinct along with Watson and Mildred's ethics, not to mention the ridiculous amount of case studies that are impossible to replicate (Wearing Jordans will make you a rapping thug!!) (The color red indicates anger and if you use it you are a psychopath (poor commies.....)) and actually believe that you now have insight into others then you are about as smart as a deformed donkey.

    And then they run around claiming that they can see into others what they cannot see about themselves...

    It is all creepy, childish and very pathetic...

    It all stems from a small group of men who had serious mommy issues...

    And it is perpetuated by equally pathetic and insecure men (or just those who need the money......)

    But alas.... What more can you expect from a man who fell for Waller's Alien thread....

    Thanks Roberta for speaking the truth and thus allowing others to do so.
  20. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    For whom it may concern. Here is an item that may help some of us to understand the ego and our selves......enjoy.

    There is No Small ‘i’
    ~ ~ ~
    You describe a small ‘i’ which you feel needs to be dropped or got rid of in order to experience the freedom of your true nature. There really isn’t a small ‘i’ and a real ‘I’. There is only one ‘I’ and it is the ‘I’ of infinite Consciousness.

    What each of us experiences as a finite mind, revolving around a finite ‘I’ is simply a limitation on that infinite Consciousness. So, the small ‘i’ has no reality of its own. It borrows its reality from the true and only I of infinite Consciousness.

    So, there is no question of getting rid of the ego or getting rid of the small ‘i’ as if the small ‘i’ was an entity in its own right that could be got rid of or that should be got rid of. The ego, the small ‘i’, the separate self, is simply an imaginary limit superimposed on infinite Consciousness.

    So, instead of feeling that you have to get rid of the small ‘i’, think and feel instead in terms of Seeing the reality of the ‘I’ that you feel yourself to be. When you feel ‘I’ (and all of us feel ‘I’…, ‘I’ is that around whom all experience revolves; it is always ‘I’ that am having experience) so, don’t try to get rid of that ‘I’, don’t condemn that ‘I’. Be interested in its nature, in its reality. Explore it.

    Now, who or what is going to explore ‘I’? Well, obviously I am. The mind is going to explore its own reality. The mind turns the knowing, that it normally directs towards objects …, it turns that knowing on itself. The Knowing investigates the Knowing with which experience is known.

    Who am I?
    I am asking ‘Who am I?’

    And in doing so, the mind is, as it were, lead on a (it’s like a) journey, deeper and deeper into itself, which is like the fading of the image on a screen which I mentioned last night. As an image, there are a multiplicity and diversity of colors and shapes. Each form is limited and separate from the other; all the people and objects in the landscape are distinct and separate. But as the image fades, everything that separates them begins to fade with them. The distinctions get less and less and less, until, when the image is faded completely, their reality, the indivisible screen, shines. In fact, it was always shining but it was obscured by the apparent multiplicity and diversity of images and objects.

    So, it’s the same here. Our experience seems to comprise a multiplicity and diversity of objects and people known by a separate subject. And our experience appears in accordance to our knowledge of the nature of that separate subject. “As a man is, so he sees.”

    So, to know what anything is out there, we have to know the nature of the self in here (if indeed it is ‘in here’). When we start investigating that self, we don’t find a self in the body. We find this open, empty Presence of Awareness in which the body and its world arise, with which is it know and out of which, ultimately, it is made.~ ~ ~.
    Rupert Spira
    There is No Small 'I'

    IMO, Rupert can teach us a lot so good luck reading his other comments and watching his videos in Youtube, etc...........

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