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dr sam parnia findings

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Storybud68, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. Storybud68

    Storybud68 Active Member

    I recently saw on the news dr sam parnia of London who after 2 years of research said that consciousness goes on for a few minutes after the heart stops due to brain activity ,so basically he is saying when the brain is completely dead so is consiousness .I would welcome your views. thank you.
     
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    easy - The consciousness of the physical body is dead - hardly a revelation and irrelevant to many of us here who know there's abundant evidence that the death of the body doesn't equate to the death of the individual......
     
  3. Storybud68

    Storybud68 Active Member

    thanks mac,does that mean then we may have two consciousness?one physical and one spiritual,and does it also mean that ndes and out of body experiences are just totally to do with the biological brain?
     
  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Our consciousness arises because we are alive - eternally and not just when we're 'in-the-body'.

    When the body finally stops working our consciousness registers without it because our bodies were never vital for consciousness. It's perhaps one reason why some think we come alive at the moment of birth, folk who have no understanding of neither the afterlife nor the 'beforelife'.

    Near death experience involves both the body and the eternal mind. Can't have the first without the second or the third! ;)
     
    Storybud68 likes this.
  5. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Yes, the consciousness stops once brain activity stops, as consciousness resides in the brain. So the doctor you mention has only stated physical facts, which are in his area of expertise (the workings of the human body).

    As to whether or not we have souls, and whether or not those souls continue to exist after death, it is my view that no living human can know that for sure.
     
  6. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear friends, the evidence is consistent and overwhelming that what we experience as human consciousness is the base creative force that continuously manifests this universe. Max Planck won the 1918 Nobel Prize in physics as the father of quantum mechanics, but he should have won a second Nobel for having found and described God! In 1931 he said, ”I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”

    Your consciousness is who and what you are, and it is eternal by definition. That it is briefly attached to a body is a detail of surprisingly little remark in your genuine eternal life! And in fact, so little of your vast, eternal mind is accessible to you while you are in a body that you feel a great deal more brilliant and powerful once you leave it. But coming here is important, since you need the negativity that exists here but really doesn't exist in eternity so you can push against it and better raise your consciousness vibration. Each lifetime here is a trip to a spiritual gym, but that is all that it is! And knowing how much having raised your vibration is going to matter once you go back home, doesn't it make sense to put at least a little bit of effort toward doing that now?

    "Soul" is just a religious term. You are your mind, and there is no separate little religious part of you. The genuine you is inextricably part of the perfect God that Jesus told us is Spirit. The genuine you is glorious!
     
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  7. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Sam Parnia is a fool. He has an agenda - materialism - which is as narrow and dead-ended as any false religion ever could be. You can happily ignore him!
     
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  8. Storybud68

    Storybud68 Active Member

    wow well I wasn't expecting such informative and brilliant answers from you all thanks mac bluebird and especially roberta ,j wish sometimes I could meet some of the people on here I almost feel I know you and you sound so lovely and genuine,maybe we can all meet up in the afterlife thanks.david
     
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  9. LachlanMac

    LachlanMac Member

    In all my readings on Dr. Sam Parnia he has seemed rather objective and fair regarding NDEs. I believe he is even doing a part 2 of his study at the moment so I am kind of doubting he concluded that brain activity is the culprit. He has always said that, using the current medical and scientific models, it is "likely" the brain causing it but he is trying to work outside the normal medical models and has lost a lot of reputation doing so.
     
    bluebird likes this.
  10. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    It's great to see you here, LachlanMac!

    As you know, the great debate now is between those who are sure the brain generates consciousness (even though they have no idea how that might happen), and those who - like the great quantum physics pioneer Dr. Max Planck - think that consciousness must be primary and pre-existing. Dr. Parnia has long been a traditional scientist pretty heavily invested in the notion that consciousness is generated by the material brain, but at least he has looked at some contrary phenomena, as you point out. Most of them won't do even that!
     
  11. LachlanMac

    LachlanMac Member

    I can definitely understand the distrust of Dr. Parnia, as he is a scientist at heart, but I really respect that he is (genuinely, in my opinion) trying to look for answers. I believe even considering research of this magnitude within the medical/scientific community is a very brave thing to do. I've read the actual research paper his team provided and in no way do they conclusively say that NDE's are a product of the brain. The problem with their study was they didn't have enough subjects. If I recall, they had about 2,000 people that went into cardiac arrest and of that, only 200 survived and less than that healthy enough to participate in the questionnaire. I believe there were only 9 accounts of people who had some form of consciousness with only 2 describing things that happened in the room (which one was verifiable). In any scientific settings, this is not ample data to make any conclusion, which I believe is why he is doing another study.

    I think this quote may help understand his views a little better:

     
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  12. Ruby

    Ruby Active Member

    If consciousness was found to be a process of the brain would that be the end of afterlife research? All unexplained phenomenon would then happen as a result of some as yet unknown capacity of the brain, such as so-called Super ESP. Or would the latter be evidence of independence from the physical brain, and so the search for life after death could still be on? Wish I was brainer and could understand these papers.
     
  13. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    no - Why would it?


    conjecture

    Why concern yourself about the hypothetical? The reality of the situation is much more satisfying in my experience.
     
  14. Ruby

    Ruby Active Member

    Just read what I've written and it's nonsense, sorry, super esp would of course just turn out to be a product of our brains.
     
  15. Ruby

    Ruby Active Member

    Sorry, we crossed. Thanks for your answer, mac.
     
  16. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Yeah the delay between posting and responding makes things a bit tricky at times. :)
     
  17. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Good question, dear Ruby, but in a word, No. Even if we were able to explain NDEs and other phenomena as needing a living brain, there are some things that we already can demonstrate happen when no human brain is involved.

    For example, the vast body of verified afterlife communications that have been documented over the past 200 years is an important part of the evidence that human consciousness pre-exists matter. NDEs are a fascinating anomaly, but they provide no evidence either way! Even if Dr. Parnia or others were able to convincingly prove that the living tissues of the brains of experiencers had generated all NDEs, that would prove precisely nothing about the origin of consciousness. On the other hand, the fact that we have many, many hundreds - thousands! - of communications received from people whose former brains were at the moment of those communications dead and rotted does give us a clue that wherever consciousness comes from, it doesn't come from those long-defunct brains ;-)!
     
  18. Storybud68

    Storybud68 Active Member

    That's well put roberta also there are countless other stories,I recently spoke to a friend of mine who was at his grandmother's death bed ,just as she took her last breath he saw 3 small orbs coming from the ceiling and go into the top of her head then a second later 4 orbs left and went of together.He was the only one in the room of 6 people to see this and he thought he was hallucinating, but he is full sure what he saw.
     
  19. Ruby

    Ruby Active Member

    Thanks Roberta. Storybud68's friend illustrates the problem for me. He says he was the only one of six present to see what he saw, and thought he was hallucinating (I hate this word!) but was sure of what he saw. It's non evidential. On the one hand, it could still come from a paranormal source, but on the other hand it could still be generated by the living agent ESP. The human brain is capable of so much and is still largely a mystery.
    However, I was also sure of what I saw, but no-one out there talks freely about seeing these tbings at all, It seems like when you tell people about it, lots have a story in their family of someone seeing or hearing things even if they have to go back a couple of generations.
     
  20. Storybud68

    Storybud68 Active Member

    what is the living agent esp?sounds interesting .my friend was expecting other people on the room to see these orbs but no one else did,if they all had it would be quite convincing.
     

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