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Desperate search for Help

Discussion in 'Member Introductions' started by Andrew, Nov 23, 2019.

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  1. Hello, my name is Andy and I am seeking desperate help, any advice would be really appreciated!

    I am seeking desperate help and shrinks don't seem to help, I tried everything, but I'm running in circles, my mental health is declining. Andy (me) reached a point where he is done with life (nihilist), he knows that he will soon lose his loved ones and hence he is at the point of suicide, life has no meaning for him as he was brought to the materialistic skeptic club, refuting spirituality, not because I want this, because I don't have proof, coming from a scientific background, it's sort of hard to acknowledge spirituality when there is no objective proof, sort of confused and agnostic at the moment....

    Many would say we are just our brains and that's it, as they would say the mind is confined within the brain...Most Scientists, and Doctors refute spirituality, nothing more than a myth, unfortunately...Everything can be reduced to "hallucinations" "fairy tales" or "wishful thinking" without proof...By this train of thoughts the existence or non existence of Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy can't be proved or disproved, nor can the pink flying dinosaur that I just imagined...

    Also wanted to ask, what do you think will happen to skeptics that want to be dead and gone after death? What will happen to those people who say that had enough of this life and don't want to exist anymore after death? Or to the materialistic skeptics?

    Please be sincere/honest, I really appreciate it !

    So here we go....

    For > half a year I had this existential crisis, deep depression with panic attacks, and I still have them, I dwell every minute on this...I am scared (as there might be nothing after death, eternal void, that energy would be conserved by feeding worms or heating the air after death). I, even now plan to cryopreserve my parents in liquid nitrogen right after their death (if they won't die by stroke), but they say I'm just crazy, that we can't afford and that it's useless...I would feel regret if I won't cryopreserve them, I want to save them, I want to be with them forever.
    My mom says that she doesen't want her spirit to be body-bounded and my father says it won't work anyway (the cryopreservation). I don't know what would happen with them, if I would cryopreserve them, but I am desperate to save them, I can't assist in the future at their funeral, I love them !

    Before that I was convinced I am the spirit/soul, my physical body dies, this was fact for me, as I never imagined it could be any other way (like void) and I was: "Ok, so what? I will meet my loved ones on the other side anyway, am just gonna live my life to the fullest". For me there wasn't any other possibility but just of the spiritual afterlife.
    After that I have been drawn in the skeptic scientist club by accident (you'll find out below) such that there is no evidence for an afterlife, and that there isn't such thing, and all are hallucinations. I don't blame others, I just blame myself for opening that discussion.

    This really hurt me, and since then I am in this existential crisis state. Please don't say things just to make me feel better. I just want to be sure that there is a spiritual afterlife and I will reunite with my lost loved ones, I just can't think, my head explodes when I think that my loved ones (lovely parents) will die and be void....Crushes my feelings... And that's why I am so desperate to cryopreserve them right after their death (if they won't die by stroke)


    Below it's my life story in brief...if you want to read it, fine, if not I'm cool with that

    Andy is born, the only child, no siblings, not religious and at the time just 2 grandparents alive. Andy's parents never taught him to be religious, but his mom taught him very briefly about spirit and spiritual afterlife (we are spirits come here for lesson and go back in spirit realm). So Andy sticked to this for most of his life, until recently....

    1st contact with death happened as his mom's mother (his maternal grandma) died due to cancer, Andy was just 6 years old and didn't know what was going on at first, but then.... realizes and starts grieving...as he understood maternal grandma won't be back...as she now resides buried in the graveyard as he attended the religious procedure...Andy was taught that her spirit is now free . Time just flies, Andy got over the loss as he was just 6 years old. In the meantime other distant relatives died but his appropriate family maternal grandpa, and parents are still alive, so Andy just grieved for the losses but deep inside he knew that their spirit is free. Then he goes to school and is abused by parents to be obedient and get good grades in school, GCSE, A Levels and later University.

    Andy didn't dwell on death since then, he put the death in a box, locked it and left it there. Andy had the attitude: "Okay, I will die too, I will still be myself because I am the spirit inhabiting this body, when the time will come that's it, no regrets, I will reunite with loved ones, so I won't dwell on it". There was no other possibility for Andy, just this one, and didn't thought about it too much. He didn't dwell on it until recently...I guess he didn't dwell on death because Andy was busy getting good grades in school, as he was forced to do so...All his life was school-centered, so he didn't had time to dwell about this death topic (as he was busy with school, and for him it was fact that we are spirits, there wasn't doubt, so he didn't dwell and let alone that topic, enjoying his life)….In the summer holidays, Andy would still be spending time with parents and grandpa so he didn't dwell on death...Andy was sure/convinced of spirit and spiritual AfterLife, there couldn't be any other way for Andy.

    Finally, Andy graduated University, he is now an Engineer, he is searching for a job. Andy didn't get to know 2 of his grandparents (on dad's side), because they were dead before Andy was born, so he just heard stories of them. One of them being that his paternal grandpa waited until Andy's dad got home, and then he died in his arms...Andy was amazed by these stories and what kind of a good person was his paternal grandpa (as he listened to the stories). So as he finished University, he felt the urge to share his happiness, so Andy, thought about his paternal grandpa that he never met. Andy was like "Grandpa John, do you watch me? Are you proud of me? ".

    So, recently he woke up one morning and suddenly he had this weird and horrible idea (that triggered the existential crisis) to search on the internet about afterlife. First result showed up as "There is no afterlife according to a well respected Physicists Sean M Carroll as the laws of physics are well understood and there is no possibility for a spiritual afterlife", then the 2nd one "Professor Stephen Hawking claims that the afterlife is just a fairy story as people are scared of the oblivion", so does Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan, 3rd he found people on Quora like Ian Sawyer (High IQ British guy) saying that there is no accepted evidence for afterlife, and all this are just fairy tales propagated in time since stone age as they couldn't explain events. 4thly, Andy looked on Wikipedia at Spirit/Soul and Afterlife and all he found was "There is no scientific evidence for the spirit and afterlife to exist, the scientific community doesen't validate those concepts".5thly, Andy found an interesting titled book "Wake up, spirituality without religion" by Sam Harris so he thought "Ow cool, I will regain my faith back", then he Googled Sam Harris and stumbled upon that argument against the afterlife "Neuroscience vs Afterlife" by Neuroscientist Sam Harris, that nobody has been dead enough to come back and say that there is "something there"

    Lastly, Andy knew since he was born that his mom has faith in the spirit and afterlife, but he didn't know until recently that his dad was skeptic about spirit, so he was shocked, it felt like a blow, like a stab, and this made him sad and go into arguments, as his dad said that "we as humans are just brains, look at Dementia people, look at boxers going unconscious, do you remember how it was before being born? It will be the same void, unconscious". His father said that after death we either become worm food, either we heat the air, and that's how "energy is conserved". Andy's dad (an engineer as well) said that the brain is developing and growing and that's why most people don't have memories and aren't conscious before 3-4 years of age. Andy's dad insisted that we arrived here as humans by accident and by evolution and gene selection (natural selection) over millions of years, from bacteria to fish t0 apes ancestors to modern day humans,and said that we have AI and Robots that will soon take over. He also said that death is like a flame stopping to burn and the energy is going nowhere, or as a computer that is shut down, hence no more electricity going in...Furthermore he said that even in a fight people will go unconscious as being knocked out, or going through general anesthesia, and that not everyone has NDE (near death experiences), and don't experience anything and that might be the same after death, no thoughts, no awareness, unconscious, as all these require a brain...that there would be no need for a spirit as the brain is doing everything...and everything can be explained by brain activity including awareness that's what scientists would say


    When Andy said that there is no proof for the spiritual afterlife not to be his skeptic dad said "Is there no proof for Santa Claus not to exist? The spirit and spiritual afterlife are just beliefs as Santa Claus. Do you still believe in Santa Claus? No, so the spiritual afterlife is the same". This last statement made Andy even more sad and bursted into crying that day as he locked himself in his room.

    Andy, felt overwhelmed by all these counter arguments against his belief. Until then Andy didn't dwell on spirit and afterlife as he was at peace with the idea, he never thought that there couldn't be a spiritual afterlife, so this was a devastating blow for Andy as he had to accept the counter arguments because they were "valid" and had "logical proof", and since Andy was grown up as an Engineer...well he had to accept because it sort of made sense to him (as he came from an engineering background)....His dad would say that science works on proof and improves our lives with new discoveries while spirituality is just wishful thinking without proof...accusing "spiritualists" as being a fraud, hoaxing for money...or simply delusional or counter intuitive and simple such as "love is important"

    After that, Andy felt in a bigger depression than he ever was, didn't understand the meaning of life, it made no sense for him anymore, he just wanted to die, he didn't want to assist at his parent's funeral going into eternal oblivion/void...Andy made a final plan as his life goal: he wanted at least to cryopreserve his parents (unless they die from stroke) , so Andy could die knowing that he did everything he could..(despite coming from a poor family, and Andy being the same) .... otherwise he would just suicide..As Andy is coming from an engineering/scientific background he kept looking for alternative ways to meet his parents including cryopreservation/ brain transplant/ AI (robots), but doesen't know if these will ever work....

    Andy felt desperate, he blames himself for having that initial bad idea of searching on the internet for the spirit and afterlife... Andy can't forgive himself, as "what has seen cannot be unseen". His perception changed so much that he had an existential crisis, with panic attacks and bursts of crying...Andy felt scared to live...he was planning his own suicide...but before that he had one more wish... he thought "internet brought me in this situation, so internet will get me out of it". He knew skeptic scientists brought him into their group, and Andy doesen't blame them, but himself...So if the internet made the current situation, why doesen't the internet help get out of the current situation.. Andy found the Spiritual Forums as he looked up on the internet for 'spiritual' and ended up here. He requested help to regain his lost faith he once had... He was nostalgic because this lost faith and existential crisis led him to be scared of living, and couldn't focus anymore, his life became a mess...

    Andy is trying to regain his faith back, because his life became a mess as he constantly dwells on the idea of no afterlife and void, he is scared to live, to lose his parents and himself as well. It's right that you don't need to have faith to do good things and be a nice person, but Andy can't understand what's the point/purpose if we all become void, it's just sad..., The scars are still there (what was experienced couldn't be unexperienced back)....Andy didn't dwell on this (spirit/afterlife) before, as he never mixed science with his faith in spirituality. For him, the spirituality and the spiritual afterlife were locked in a locked chest, as he had faith there is spirit and spiritual afterlife, and he never thought that there might not be, there wasn't any possibility not to be (in Andy's perception), and he was very comfortable with that, this made him live his life at the fullest without fears.... He doesen't want to dwell on this in the future. It's a saying that for everything bad something good is learnt, Andy can't understand what were the good teachings on this existential crisis and horrible experience, as what he saw can't be unseen...The biggest shock was that he never considered the possibility for a spiritual afterlife not to be (spirituality was fact for him before), coupled with the fact that Andy came from an engineering/scientific background sort of made him accept the skeptic scientist's arguments/claims, because they sort of made sense (logically).......

    Andy has to be sure of spirit and spiritual afterlife because his logical engineering/scientific brain wants evidence for everything. Andy wants to live his life to the fullest, but deep inside he knows that...when the time will come...his family will die and he will be there to assist, he dwells over the idea of cryopreservation him and his parents, he doesen't want to see his family dying slowly...... Andy is desperate to get out of this situation and to live his life as it was before....but doesen't know what to do...what has been seen and experienced can't be unseen and unexperienced...

    Thanks for reading ! Much appreciated ! I really don't know what to do, I am scared and panicked, I want to be the old me that didn't experience this crisis.

    Wish you all the best in the world !

    Andy
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  2. mac

    mac Staff Member

    Welcome to ALF, Andy, although the circumstances that brought you here are not those that bring most of our newcomers.

    I will admit immediately that I haven't read the whole of your long piece because it's unlikely I'd reach a conclusion different from my initial one and because I'm asking you to slow down and take a step backwards. Exactly what - in very simple sentences, please - brings you to ALF and what are you seeking?

    I'm going to be blunt because you asked that we be sincere/honest. My initial reaction is that you're still needing emotional/mental/psychological counselling and help. You've been to some professionals but it doesn't mean that's not the path you should still be treading - I think you still need much help and support. Speaking about yourself in the third person is only one issue I find disturbing. :(

    All afterlife / spiritual issues are secondary in my view and are more readily resolved, at least in the early stages. We can also tell your our experiences and suggest where to look to see if what we say makes sense. But first you need to resolve the other issues and we can't help you with that online.

    That's all I'm going to 'say' for the moment - I'll wait for you to come back and maybe we can see where we're going then? :)
     
    Kurt likes this.
  3. Dear Mac,
    Thank you for your reply, it is much appreciated !

    Thank you for your honesty, I appreciate it !

    In very simple sentences
    I am trying to regain my faith in Spirit and the Afterlife. I used to have what some might call "a blind faith, without proof", and I wasn't bothered by that because there was no other option for me, I never considered that there could also be a possibility of no Afterlife. For me Spirit and Afterlife were facts despite coming from a Scientific background...This came as a shock for me and now battling myself with an existential crisis.

    I tried looking for answers and proof but I always stumbled upon skeptics that were saying "We are just our brains, once dead that's it, like before being born, nothing, and all spiritual are fraud/hoax and delusional, there is no need for spirit as the brain does everything, and that after we pass energy is transferred to other beings...", that " there is no before-life and no afterlife, as there is no proof, just ancient myths", that "everything is material/physical and that humans arrived at this point due to evolution by natural selection". This made me disappointed since wherever I looked for answers I stumbled upon this every single time from Scientists and Doctors...

    Thank you for being blunt, I tried multiple mental health remedies, went to shrinks, but the problem can't be solved with medication, or speaking with shrinks that don't care about spirituality...


    Thank you. I know what can solve the issues, certainty that there is spirit and Afterlife, that what we learn here is not lost, that we get reunited with our loved ones, is all that I want to be certain of. But please be honest, I really appreciate that !

    Many thanks
    Andy
     
  4. mac

    mac Staff Member

    my pleasure - I do hope that ALF gives you food-for-thought. It's not our intention to persuade or change your outlook but we can offer counterpoint to at least some of the issues you raised in your original posting.


    We have had others on ALF struggling with the concept of their existence. First things first - your science background probably won't help with matters spiritual save for providing a helpful systematic, analytical approach that comes from your work but is also likely your nature. I pride myself on a similar approach on most subjects and especially that of spiritual/afterlife issues.

    Answers about, and evidence of, our survival beyond death are there in abundance but there is no scientific proof. I don't speak of proof but I do say evidence.

    They can say whatever they wish but where's their proof - or evidence - of what they say?


    Perhaps we 'knowers' are somewhat disparaging or dismisive of scientists and doctors but their track record isn't impressive and we are persuaded by the ideas of much more enlightened individuals. You have to decide whose approach, whose ideas, appeal to your reason.



    Shrinks are unlikely to have answers about spiritual/afterlife issues. If you're saying you're certain your emotional/mental difficulties are solely down to a struggle to make sense of spiritual/afterlife matters then we may be able to point you in the right direction to find what you're seeking. Now I need to make this next bit cvery clear.

    The website AfterLifeForums is predicated on the certainty we survive our corporeal deaths, its owner totally persuaded of it after decades of search and research and I myself similarly 100% certain of our survival and of communication that provides the evidence of it.

    Both of us come from different backgrounds, from different nations, live in different countries with wholly different lifestyles - yet we share that 100% conviction about what we know and understand. What we 'say' online is a mix of our own understanding and the guidance and teaching from discarnate individuals who we - and many others - consider to be highly spiritually-evolved. So what you're looking for is what we are certain about.....

    Directly answering your first point - what we learn from our experiences in this world, in this current lifetime and in others, is not lost. We do not, however, (quote) "get reunited with our loved ones". What actually happens is that if the both of you love one another, if the both of you want to be reunited, then that will happen by the strength of the love that draws you together. Not just the love you had for one another in your last incarnation but from the love you have for each other eternally, a love that springs from your being members of the same soul-cell/soul-group.

    How is all that for openers?;):)
     
  5. Thank you for your reply ! It is appreciated, I regard myself currently as a skeptic but as an open-minded one. Yes, there is a lot of food for thought, cheers !


    Yes, it's tantalising to think of Afterlife stories, but the thing that obstructs me is the proof, since everyday I'm relying on rational thinking and proof.

    Yes, I looked over the Forum, indeed there is plenty of information. The thing is, I don't know which one is closer to Truth. As far as I know the Truth is relative to one own's Agenda, what is true for someone might be false for someone else. What I would imagine the Afterlife to be like is according to one own Agenda and belief.

    They have their proof/evidence for the material that's the thing. If they say that they will throw a stone from a building, it will fall due to gravity. Now 3 different giants in science had 3 different interpretations, Newton would say it's the Gravitational force, Einstein would say that a Force is pushing the object downwards, whereas Tesla would say it's the electromagnetic field..So who is right? The truth is relative...I guess it would be the same with the afterlife, if there is one...everyone will get what they wish for...

    But there are still "objective truths" such as despite someone wanting something not to happen, it will still happen regardless of belief. If someone throws a stone in a lake, the stone will sink regardless of the belief of the observer...

    My follow-up question would be, what would happen to the people that wish to be dead and gone after death?
    Also, not everyone has an NDE, that's like saying not everyone dreams, but why not all NDErs experience the NDE?


    The only thing I want to be certain is of the spirit and afterlife, how can I be sure that there is more than the material? If there is more than the material how are the material and non-material connected?


    Yes, that's why I came here, I have to replenish my faith, am on a quest. To be honest for me, the most tantalising hypothesis is that of consciousness (spirit) residing in the quantum-capable microtubules within the neurons, this is what Sir Roger Penrose and Hameroff postulated.

    That was great for openers !

    Thank you, really much appreciated. The latter part resonated a bit with what Spirit Guide Sparrow postulated on the website, that the connection/bridge would be created only if the 2 spirits accept it.

    How different would we be after death? I know that we are constantly changing each second, but how different would someone be right after death ?

    If there is no time in spirit, doesen't that mean that we are already there? What would happen if we want to meet someone that reincarnated already ? Would we have to wait him/her, or would an essence of him/her be still "up there" ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  6. mac

    mac Staff Member



    Finding proof is something I'm confident won't happen, Andy. As long as you can't separate your work-life from real-life then you'll face this problem.


    I've made the point to another member recently that there is no single element that is 'the truth'. What's true are many small components that add up to a bigger picture reflecting the actual situation.


    You must follow what feels right to you but there is no gradation of truth, no variability according to one's agenda or belief. What is variable is our perception of the elements that add up to the big picture, what you and others call "the truth".


    So believe what they say if that's what you think.


    Scientific proofs of observed effects in the physical dimension apply only to observed effects in the physical dimension. You want to stay and debate whose perspective is right or wrong then go ahead but that's not how things are in the etheric worlds.

    ditto

    Now you're beginning your search and the answers you're looking for have already been given here on ALF...



    ditto the above


    ditto

    I don't think I need to offer any comment on this - you need to make the choice, Andy. Us or them! :D



    That was great for openers !

    You'll find a link to the SGS pages in the 'Resources' section..

    How long is a piece of string? At one end of the spectrum some will be very different from their incarnate selves, at the other end some will be little changed and inbetween those extremes will be the rest!

    question time! Take a look around, use the advanced search utility, plonk a keyword or two in and see what comes up....
     
  7. Thank you for your reply, Mac ! Your sincerity is much appreciated.

    Now, I'll start doing my homework, but really, there are so many perspectives on spirit, and afterlife, some of them are even contradictory, so which one should I follow? The one that mostly resonates with me? I know that my definitions alter my beliefs, and my beliefs alter my perception which creates my reality...

    Before coming here I did a lot of research on SGS, Bob Olson, Seth Material, Ra Material (Law Of One), Afterlife 101, Dr Eben Alexander, other NDE, Dr Sam Parnia, Sir Roger Penrose and Hameroff, Biocentrism, Post Materialistic scientists like Rupert Sheldrake, UVA Perceptual Studies, Richard Martini, Dolores Cannon, Victor Zammit. They all postulate theories but where they get their spiritual information from, and what makes it trustworthy?
     
  8. genewardsmith

    genewardsmith Active Member

    Zammit is broadly knowledge about afterlife evidence, so he would be a good place to start.
     
  9. mac

    mac Staff Member

    You answered your own question, Andy, although it can be hard to figure which is the one that appeals most to your reason....

    It depends on what you're most looking for as to where to begin but please remember that there's no new information, just different ways to present old stuff. The simple principle that we survive death intact and move on to live again can be enough to get many folk's heads around fully and to properly comprehend what those two elements mean in practice might be a good place to start. From there who knows what you'll want to better understand next?

    I can't tell you and wouldn't dream of trying to tell you which source of information would suit you best. That's a journey of discovery you'll make by yourself but we may be able to accompany you along the way to help with the inevitable questions you'll have.
     
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