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capital punishment

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by mac, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    The state of Arkansas is in the news for its rush to execute death-row prisoners before the use-by date of the last stock of execution drug expires. New supplies may not be available because manufacturers are uncomfortable about their products being used for execution. Those of us members who understand, or at least accept, the notion of continuous life may see the situation from a different perspective still, one very different from that of mortals without such an understanding.

    When we accept the notion of life after death (and everything associated with that notion) is it right to execute convicted criminals? Are we simply legalising something judged illegal under different circumstances?

    Is it justice or vengeance?
    Kurt likes this.
  2. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Capital punishment frees from his body what is often a low-vibration being at the very depth of his negativity, and it therefore may very well produce yet another deeply negative earthbound to do further mischief. Setting aside the obvious fact that no human being should take the life of another human being for a host of reasons, this is spiritual pollution on an epic scale!
  3. Kurt

    Kurt Active Member

    Could he become a shadow being possibly?
  4. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Yes, of course.
    Kurt likes this.
  5. Amy

    Amy Member

    I feel it's vengeance. I know it's a bit of a cliche, but what is justice? maybe something that might be balanced and lived over lifetimes and whilst in the spirit world. It would be naive to think we kill someone and deliver a soul - type 'justice'.

    Also I feel it is out of alignment with compassion. We do not get to pick and choose whom is deserving or undeserving. I know that sounds preachy, but I truly feel the principles of capital punishment are out of alignment.

    Yes I do think it's hypocritical.

    Well thats my bob's worth on this sunny lovely autumn morning.

    Thanks for the good question posed!!

    Corey likes this.
  6. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's a month since I posted this thread, one I thought might be contentious, divisive, and I hesitated before starting any arguments. I needn't have been concerned because only three other members responded and we didn't fall out with one another!

    Yet on another of my other regular 'spiritual' websites we had a long and often acrimonious debate on the subject although that was a few years ago. I still see capital punishment much the same as I have for some years but perhaps folk don't think it's an important issue now. It's certainly a minority situation and other matters perhaps deserve precedence.
  7. Amy

    Amy Member

    That's gotta be a good feeling then! :)
  8. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Oh it's nice there wasn't any acrimony but a few more interested individuals with interesting comments would have been even nicer!! :D
  9. Corey

    Corey Member

    I used to be totally in favor of capital punishment. Back in high school I went through a phase where I hated all of humanity for all of the terrible things we've done and continue to do. Destroy the earth, hurt animals, our selfishness etc. Since then, I've completely changed that perspective, become more loving towards others, and seen the clear picture of humanity's purpose with the help of afterlife evidence. Nowadays, I definitely think capital punishment is not right, since I believe it is never right to end a life before its natural time and interfere with a soul's journey here on earth. I also believe compassion and love should could come before a death sentence. Imagine if our society were loving, above all, and prisons were merely places you go if you don't feel loved enough (since people only commit crimes because they don't feel loved enough). The transforming power of love is pretty incredible. When and if love is ever the predominating force on this planet, we will see much less crime and won't even need to talk about the death penalty.
  10. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I'm not in favor of execution. I think it's barbaric and spiritually it's plain wrong.

    But I do believe in sentencing certain classes of offenders to whole-life imprisonment instead. Here in the UK that's uncommon and so-called life sentences often aren't life sentences at all. Additionally multiple sentences can run concurrently - rather than consecutively - and the offender eventually returns to life in the community. That can be very distressing for the victim's family and friends.

    I feel that if society decides that a crime is serious enough to warrant the death penalty then a commuted sentence should result in the perpetrator never being freed.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  11. Greyportal

    Greyportal New Member

    Life after death doesn't factor into the equation for me.

    For me it's an issue of murder. If we believe murder is wrong, then it's just as wrong for the state to murder. I believe murder is wrong. Accordingly, I believe state sanctioned murder is wrong.

    I also have issue with the definition of murder--it is so convoluted. There's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree murder. There's voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. Then there's justifiable homicide.

    Dead is dead. To say one act of murder is less heinous than another act of murder is completely irrational to me.

    And where justice is to be served, the smorgasbord of murder definitions allows more likable defendants to be sentenced to life in prison or less. Defendants who appear less likable to the jury and judge can be sentenced to death. And the color of a person's skin or their nationality could be what the jury and judge perceives as likable or not. Sentencing based on racial discrimination is a fact.

    But the most disturbing aspect of capital punishment is killing an innocent person. In the past 28 years, the Innocence Project has proven through DNA evidence that 350 people were wrongly convicted. Of the 350 wrong convictions, 20 served on death row. Of the 350 wrongly convicted 217 or African-American, 106 were white, 25 Latinos, 2 Asians.

    Of the 350 cases, authorities were able to identify, arrest, and convict the real criminals in 149 cases. While the innocent sat in prison, those 149 criminals committed 147 more violent crimes, including murder.

    When a heinous crime is committed, there is no justice. There is no resurrecting the dead. There's no end to the grief for the surviving family. We put so much emphasis on "justice", but it's subjective and a philosophical concept that varies from culture to culture. In some parts of the world, stoning a woman to death for adultery is considered justice for the husband.

    Society needs to stop equating the judiciary with justice. Rather the judiciary should function as the guardians-- separating out those who pose a real threat to society.
  12. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    quote: "Rather the judiciary should function as the guardians-- separating out those who pose a real threat to society."

    I agree and also it's separating out those who are, and will remain, a threat to society and then keeping them separate.

    Please remember that this thread is not about just the North American judicial system or about re-defining murder or other killing crimes.
  13. Corey

    Corey Member

    Greyportal, I agree with many of your points. One thing I do want to say, though, is that there is a reason for the different degrees of murder, and it's all based on intention.
    Here are some examples of different degrees of murder, all with increasing intent to do harm:
    1. You run someone over because they ran in front of your car. There was nothing you could do to stop it. It happened too quickly. So, technically, you killed them, but it was not whatsoever your intent. (I'm not sure if this one actually qualifies as murder, but you're definitely killing someone).
    2. You're driving drunk, knowing you could potentially kill someone, but still, your intent is not to kill someone. You do not want this to happen, but you are regardless being irresponsible. I'm pretty sure that one qualifies as manslaughter.
    3. You intentionally kill someone. It is premeditated. You had every intent of killing them.

    To me, there are definitely different degrees of murder. When murder is premeditated and intentional, I think that is much worse than if it is somewhat accidental in the case of a drunk driver or in other lesser cases. A lot of evidence from the other side says the same, that we judge ourselves more by our intentions than our actions. This leaves more room for understanding.
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    The court can reflect in its sentencing the perceived gravity of a crime, the intention of the perpetrator but will all of society ever reject the notion of forcibly ending even a criminal's life?
  15. Amy

    Amy Member

    Interesting and great posts! People with some grey matter and some consciousness too, woooooooo!

    I wonder how they would view it from the other side? Would there be a variety of viewpoints (pro or against capital punishment), based upon what experience they are currently having, and other factors, such as belief etc? Who could say? (Or have some already said it?) And/or are there fundamental spiritual laws which are learnt about over there and which influence points of view more naturally than in this physical world?
  16. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Great question, Amy! And while I haven't seen this particular question addressed, I'm confident that since there is no judgment by anyone but oneself and since they are loving and solicitous to the most evil criminals, they are probably not big fans of capital punishment!
  17. Dear Mac, your quote "rather the judiciary should function as the guardians" I hope that what I want to ask you wont be considered as off topic, but re judiciary, have you heard of the common purpose? Brian Gerrish 2017, would you be kind enough to look at this on you tube? your opinion would be of the utmost importance to me. this is not woo woo stuff but I would appreciate if you would take time to watch it all the way through, on the other hand I will understand if you refuse, as this is extremely serious I wouldn't ask only it has started to affect us up here in Scotland and I believe also Plymouth. hope that this is not inappropriate, however it is true. I apologise in advance if I have caused any offence,
  18. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It was member Greyportal's words I had quoted and my response was in the context of capital punishment.... Rather than my watching the whole video can you tell me which section relates to the thread topic? If so then I'll be happy to take a look at it.

    I can see that 'Common Purpose' is active online on a number of matters but I have no idea how, or if, that affects Scotland specifically. If it's Plymouth also then it seems there's no particular focus on the Scots.
  19. Hello Mac, thank you for your reply, it was to do with your quote re judiciary, the particular video is Bran Gerrish 2017, which addresses judiciary among other things, also from what he says this is not only Scotland, this is on a global scale. I wont go into it as it is very scary, the difficulty is many of us are seeing it happen now. I completely understand if you don't wish to look at it.
  20. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I'd like a reason to encourage my going to view it, Isabel.... ;)

    If it's about something political or whatever but not related to capital punishment, the topic of this thread, then maybe you could please post it in the 'Off Topic' section with a few remarks what it's about.

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