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BruceAdama's Thread

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by BruceAdama, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. BruceAdama

    BruceAdama Established Member

    Yes, I am saying he is quite fallible.
     
  2. That's OK. I've touched enough for both of us...
     
  3. Sorry, no dice. :D

    When my plate of food has more than 3 colours on it, I don't eat it. Chances are it's too healthy, and tastes lousy, and both reasons are sufficient enough for me to avoid eating it.

    Didn't like most vegetables way back then, and still don't today.
     
  4. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear BruceAdama, I love the way you are persistent in your certainties - we need more of that resolve in people! - but I just ask you to try experimentally to think beyond your own experiences. Just experimentally. You needn't post the results here, although of course you are welcome to if you like.

    As for me, here are two of the things of which I am absolutely, 100% certain:

    1) Lima beans are disgusting and unfit for human consumption and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their taste buds (and even their head) examined.

    2) Skiing is a form of torture involving simultaneously freezing cold, hard snow that you can never avoid slamming into repeatedly, long lines in that freezing cold, and boredom, not to mention hours of dangerous driving before and after. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs extensive therapy and may never be right even with all that therapy.

    I learned these and other facts in childhood, I have been persuaded to re-examine them in adulthood, and I know them to be true for an absolute fact. I cannot ever be convinced otherwise, despite the fact that there are people I love (my wonderful husband of 40 years included) who unaccountably hold different certainties on both subjects.

    Now, I understand that your memories which have convinced you that you were dumped here by a God holding various negative qualities are more central to your life than lima beans or skiing are to mine, but the examples are different in degree and not in kind. In fact, of those who have reported apparently genuine experiences with the real God/Mind (not the religious one), every experience that I ever have seen has been positive, some in ways that make your jaw drop and your eyes well up (okay, except for yours ;-)). I am entirely right about lima beans and skiing based upon my own life experiences. But, dear beloved friend, there is so much to know about both beyond just my own experiences!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  5. BruceAdama

    BruceAdama Established Member

    Roberta, You are quite right that the vast majority of NDE experiences ARE indeed positive. But I know you must have studied numerous cases, and with far more scrutiny than I, as you have written an actual book on the matter... you must know that there IS that small percentage of NDE cases, where the person who has died has been resolute in their wish to remain in Heaven, only to have that wish rebuffed, and find themselves back in their bodies here on Earth. As harsh and venomous as my language referring God may seem, you have to admit that all my arguments ARE based on things taken from actual NDE cases, and my own personal experience... I don't make stuff up just for the heck of fanning a fire... I have read these things in NDE reports, and some things to me don't make sense, or go contrary to other things, and I want to understand why.

    This is something that I don't understand... the apparent willingness to simply look the other way, when confronted with an inconsistency about God, or the afterlife. Instead of just saying how God/Mind is all good, and positive, and ignoring the fact that there ARE NDE cases where free will is ignored by God, why not hold those few cases up to the light, for all to see... to expose the issue, and try to figure out why, or understand it? I like clarity. I like truth. I like to understand. I don't care how vast or powerful a mind or force is... if there is something about it that either doesn't make sense, or that I don't understand, the fact that it is vast and powerful doesn't just give it a free pass in my book... I want to get to the bottom of it.

    If you wish, Roberta, I would be more than happy to share with you the actual NDE cases I cited, for you to examine, and I can highlight all the examples in them of what I am talking about here.
     
  6. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    But what is leading you to say that God is fallible, and that you know better than he does what is best for you? Where's the evidence of that?

    (I'm not criticizing you here - I am truly curious what has lead you to these beliefs.)
     
  7. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    If you are unaware of the larger picture, then yes, I'll admit that these types of near-death experiences do lead one to believe that free will is ignored by the Powers That Be (it's not normally God personally, but rather beings of light). But, the fact is that there are things going on that both the reader, and even the near-death experiencer, are not aware of.

    Many near-death experiencers do actually add their near-death experience to their life plans. That is to say that they plan, before birth, that they will have a near-death experience, and then be sent back to earth. They agree to that plan of their own free volition. Of course though, when the event occurs, they are not aware that they made that plan. Whoever is there to greet them is, and explains that they will be sent back, since that is what was asked for in the first place.

    Perhaps this does invade the sanctity of free will, but only in our best interest. Trust me, any near-death experiencer who chose to go back to the Summerland prematurely would be nothing sort of devastated when, during his life review, he discovered what opportunities he threw away.

    One thing I do want to bring up is that you seem to be seeing God more as a person than he really is. This is why, for a lot of people, God is bad term to use. Really, God is nothing more than loving, eternal, creative energy. He is not a person, he has no form, he just is. This energy is the only real part of all of us, but is not directly involved in governing heaven and earth. Even the creation of this "reality" was almost certainly done through helper beings, and not by God directly.

    To come close to understanding the nature of this Loving Energy, you have to understand what the world would be like without that Energy. Think of a fish, for example: It cannot comprehend what water is, until it has experienced life outside the water. It does not understand how vital water is, until it experiences air. So it is with God. You are so fully saturated in God's love, that you cannot even begin to imagine how void life would be without it. The only person, whom I know, that can begin to grasp this is Roberta, who had a rather amazing childhood experience relating to this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2013
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Again, what you say is technically true, but I think you are perhaps not aware of larger forces and impetuses that are at work in the Afterlife.

    For example, yes there are virtually no bad thoughts in heaven, but not because people are restricted by God. The fact is that people who have reached the Summerland Levels or above have proven themselves to be spiritually mature. As such, they are, in a way, beyond bad thoughts. Such thoughts lower your vibrational level so, if they were overly present in an individual, that individual would have a very difficult time accessing the Summerland in the first place. So, to start with, the people in heaven tend to be very positive.

    Furthermore, God has not taken away the ability to be angry or upset. I have seen examples of people being sad in the Summerland, albeit very sparingly. What is happening is that the vast majority of people in the Summerland are simply choosing to be happy and positive, because they have everything they could have ever desired. Those who may be sad have boatloads of compassion, empathy, and help to aid them in getting over it.
     
  9. BruceAdama

    BruceAdama Established Member

    Well, I will admit, it's hard to answer this without falling into a trap, but I will do my best. What leads me to say God is fallible is the various flaws I see in the way he does things, such as the example of ignoring someone wish to remain in the afterlife, rather than return to Earth. I acknowledge a fault when I see it, and in God's case, will call him/it out on it, because God is claiming and regarded to be perfect, when he/it is not... for to be perfect is to be without fault.

    Now, as to what makes me think I know better than God what is best for me... well, to put it simply, God isn't me. I am me, and I know what's best for me. Everything I have learned about God thus far indicates that our two minds operate in wholly opposing fashions, and quite frankly, I have no interest in what God wants, his plan for me, or how he runs things. I have no desire to either serve him or exist under him. I want absolute and total control over my own will, my own form/body, and my own existence. I want nothing to do with him, so long as I cannot be assured those things. If he wants me to reincarnate, and I don't want to, I want the ability to tell God to basically F off, with no consequences whatsoever. I want supreme control over myself, period.

    Again, as you just asked me... where is the evidence for this? This statement ignores the fact that by the time a given soul is offered the choice, they have already had their life review. Obviously, if they decide to remain in the afterlife, the benefits of that choice outweigh the negatives. Again, that's just that... THEIR choice... it's not up to God to make the choice for them... that's not his call. If he doesn't want to deal with an opposing viewpoint, then don't even offer the choice to begin with... otherwise, respect the individual and their choice. Simple as that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    But here's the problem: God is you. In fact, all that you are is God. The conception that you and Mind are separate entities is just a temporary illusion. Eventually, we all have to understand that we don't exist individual. All sentient beings are really One, Divine Being. A lot of people struggle with this concept and refuse to believe it. Remember though, you have nothing to lose by accepting this fact, but you have everything to gain!
     

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