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BruceAdama's Thread

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by BruceAdama, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. BruceAdama

    BruceAdama Established Member

    Hello, all...

    It's been some time since I've last been here, and that's been due to various things, mostly a series of hard drive and PC issues. Thankfully, I can report ONE bit of good news... after a complete FOUR years of unemployment and job-searching, someone finally hired me, so I am working again, and starting the process of rebuilding my finances again, having to quite literally start from absolute zero, at age 35. So at least there's that. But other things are still pretty much as they were. In any case, I wanted to start my very own thread here to post my various random thought/questions/musings about the afterlife, God, and the reasoning behind things, since I look at things in an analytical and logical way. If something puzzles me, I have to know why, and I don't rest until I find the answer. And since those here who know me are well-aware of the "bad-blood" between me and God, I figured I'd keep everything here in my own thread, so as to not be accused of filling the other threads up with garbage. Those here can choose to reply to something I post here, or they can choose not to. It matters not to me. This is basically just a place for me to post my thoughts on various things. To start, I will begin with a couple of things:

    A PARADOX

    I was sitting in my car the other day, waiting to clock in for work, and I was pondering the memories I have of being sent here to this life against my will, under vehement protest, and how I pretty much hate this life, and my conflict with God. It was then that a deliciously ironic thought came across my mind... what if God actually sent me here because of the very fact that I want nothing to do with him, and wanted to be away from him? If that were true, then in an ironic way, he gave me what I wanted... life on the physical plane, where I can do what I wish, and have the feelings I wish to have. This would actually make some twisted sense, if it didn't ignore other factors that are important to take into account...

    It (as far as I know) has only been THIS life and these life circumstances that have cultivated and given rise to my deep dislike for God, and the way he does things. That being the case, I would have had no cause to be angry at God before I was born, as my circumstances would have been different. I have said that my previous life ended because I was hit by a car as a small child (toddler-age). While that is an unfortunate event, I would not have been old enough to have been felt "cheated" by it, or have cultivated any anger from it... it simply happened. Now, I may be wrong about that, and this is where the paradox aspect comes into play... this is what leads me into my next point and questions, which I have asked before, but have yet to receive a satisfactory answer on...

    The so-called "Veil of Forgetfulness". When we are sent here, we forget everything about the afterlife, and what was before. As I have (rightly) stated before in this forum, the very idea of this veil is simply beyond stupid, for it is by its very nature, counterproductive to God's own so-called plan. If we are sent to Earth to learn a lesson, then it makes sense to do so, and take that knowledge with to the afterlife, where it can be shared by all. But installing something that blocks memory of those lessons is counterproductive, because it means we have to keep learning the same lessons over and over and over again. Stupid and redundant. Beyond that, it merely prolongs whatever breakthrough we are supposed to attain from our lessons. NOBODY here has ever been able to give me a satisfactory explanation for the veil that would address all my factual flaws that are inherent in it. If someone can, I welcome them to do so. In order to fully explain something, you need to look at it in intimate detail, and examine ALL aspects of it... including the flaws. The veil is inherently and deeply FLAWED by its very nature, and in its very principle. Try as you may, you cannot deny that. You can certainly ignore it, but you cannot deny it. To remove the veil is to greatly accelerate the evolution of humanity AND God's plan, for when we can know of all our mistakes, we can avoid them in the future, without wasting time repeating them over and over and over. Evolution opposed to stagnation. Now, one member here once said that some people may choose to do the wrong thing, regardless of what they know to be right or wrong, and this is quite true, which only serves to further prove my point that absolutely nothing in God's plan would suffer by removing the veil, because when it all comes down to it, it's all about free will. So God still gets to run his little social experiment, and we get the benefit of greatly accelerated evolution. It's all about choice. It's like I told my best friend once... absolute power does NOT corrupt... it depends on the mind. If you give Jesus absolute power, he will do good and help the world. If you give Satan absolute power, he will do evil, and hurt the world... it's all about mindset and individual choice.

    So unless I can fully understand what went on before I was born, I cannot discount the possibility that I was indeed sent here completely against my will, under intense protest from me. Jesus had the luxury of communing directly with God, and knew what his role was, and how it would affect the world. He harbored no hate or anger because of it, because he had CLARITY.
     
  2. Intbel

    Intbel New Member


    Hiyas Bruce. Such statements as "NOBODY here has ever been able to give me a satisfactory explanation for the veil that would address all my factual flaws that are inherent in it. If someone can, I welcome them to do so" I find difficult to resist so to get rid of the difficuly, I respond to them.

    I am convinced that although we generally have no recall of any of our previous inhabitations of Earth, any lessons, knowledge and wisdom we gain from them is retained.

    One example: Becoming less selfish to the point (and beyond) of becoming generous is something which is learned. This being so, when two children, raised in the same family are each given a bag of sweets and one immediately offers them around and the other scuttles off holding the bag of sweet protectively so no-one else can have one - why the difference? From whence came this learning in such a short time? I conclude the child brought this learning with him/her from previous experience.

    I think it is desireable that we are unable to recall past experiences because if we did, we'd probably spend so much time and effort perhaps attempting to do something about the consequences of our choices last time. Some folks may even seek revenge on folks who caused them discomfort and if those folks have "died" may seek revenge on the family of the supposed offenders. This mindset is not uncommon, there are many family feuds which continue when the original argument may have occurred several generations previously.

    Recollection of previous experiences would impede our progress during our current experience.

    Anyway, what use knowing of past experiences? Not at all important. What we gain is of value and of some import - not how, when or where those gains were made.

    You may or may not find that explanation satisfactory. I'll go with it until I can think of a better explanation.



    ~ ♥ ~
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
    Widdershins3 likes this.
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I do apologize, dear Bruce, for that fact that we have not been able to explain the concept of "the veil" to you in a satisfactory manner. As usual, Intbel's answer is spot-on accurate, but please allow me to take a swing at this as well.

    Briefly: Your argument, that God's plan would be accelerated without the veil, is not logical in my opinion. The point of living on earth is to work and grow because that is the right thing to do. We have to come here to shift for ourselves and learn for ourselves in the process. True growth often comes from difficulty. Tell me, if we realized, fully and completely, that our earthly difficulties are no more permanent than a kindergartener's block tower being knocked over, would we really try to succeed in life? Would we take risks for others, knowing that their suffering wasn't "real" (in terms of the Greater Reality)? I don't think we would. Being killed on earth would become as trivial and mundane as being killed in a video game. Not much growth would happen, so God's plan, as it were, would actually be slowed down immensely in my opinion. You are, of course, free to believe whatever you feel is best!

    And also: Congratulations on having found employment! That is wonderful news!
     
    Widdershins3 likes this.
  4. BruceAdama

    BruceAdama Established Member

    Thank you both, for your replies. Intbel,
    this is exactly why I argue in favor of removing the veil, because don't you see... to change is to grow, and to learn more! If we did something wrong in your previous life, would you not want to make up for it, by doing something better? Suppose you were a murderer in the last life... wouldn't it feel great if knowing that, that you could choose to try and make up for it by doing charity work in this life, or helping people in some fashion? That is my point, that not knowing is what impedes progress, not improves it. That's like saying cancer will go away if you don't know you have it. Untrue. If you DO know you have it, at the very least, you can act to do something about it, or try your very best to make the most out of a bad situation. But if you don't have that knowledge, nothing can be done at all.

    Andrew, again, your reply leads directly to another, more basic argument I made here back when I first showed up, which is that life on this plane itself is basically useless and not needed. I mean, if "Heaven" is nothing but peace and love and joy, why would we even "need" or want to come here? But that argument is for another one of my posts, which I will deal with soon. To respond directly to your point, if we accept the legitimacy of life here, than yes, true growth comes from difficulty. However... my point is why must we RELIVE the exact same difficulty over and over and over again? We should face a challenge, and learn from it, and retain the knowledge learned from it, so we don't make the same mistake twice, and can move on (progress) to conquering newer challenges, and gaining even more knowledge. Think of it this way... you are a parent telling a small child not to touch a hot pot of boiling water, because the child will get burned, and it will hurt. Being a curious child, the child ignores you, and does it anyway, and of course, gets burned. If you say nothing after that, and simply assume the child learned its lesson, there is nothing to stop the child from trying it again, thinking maybe something would be different. BUT... if you were to record a video of the child burning itself, and then show it to the child every time it had the idea to touch the pot, it would be reminded of the mistake, and that doing so resulted in pain, and would not do it any longer. This is why removing the veil is the logical thing to do, because repetition leads to stagnation, and retention of knowledge leads to progress. Please know that I mean NO offense with anything I write... I'm just trying to examine and understand. I encourage questions about what I write... it forces me to rethink and explain my positions.

    And thank you for the comment on my employment. Yes, I am very happy to be working again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  5. Intbel

    Intbel New Member


    I understand the argument. I disagree with the argument.
    Reason: Guilt.
    To be aware that one may have "killed" another previously one may be so full of feelings of guilt and aye, remorse - how would one overcome that? Helping others is a fine thing to do (we should be doing that anyway) but how could helping Mr. A overcome feelings regarding Mr. B?

    That burden will have been dealt with one way or another and whatever one needed to learn regarding that experience will already have been learned. After all, if that learning has not taken place, one would not want to make amends. As to retribution - as opposed to punishment, let's call it making amends - that appears to be an automatic process which, depending upon circumstances and other factors could well be resolved "upstairs" before returning here. Or not.

    There is much learning and healing "upstairs" along with all manner of work. One is able to make amends from either side, whichever is appropriate for the individual.

    If we re-incarnate, it is for a new experience, much of its purpose to learn some of what has not already been learned.

    Of course, it is also possible that nothing has been learned at all. (Very unlikely or very rare, one might suppose).

    In that case how could one learn here, other than to be murdered one's self and witness the heartbreak of those who care about us, spouses, children, especially, perhaps? If this is so, then to remember the past experience would certainly inhibit our development in every aspect of our lives because we'd be living in fear, constantly terrified of attack.


    Heh heh - but that'd be okay, I guess, we'd be safe, 'cos we'd be diagnosed as extremely paranoid, would be forcibly drugged into extremely passive docility while locked away in an asylum.

    But then, could be murdered by the individual in the next cell who didn't take the medication. So one would have to kill him first.
    But that would not happen - be so doped up and dumbed down wouldn't be able to figure it out.

    :rolleyes:

    ♥​
     
  6. Congratulations Bruce for finding work. I'm sure that you feel better.

    Very interesting post regarding the veil. And I think that the answer is not straight forward...and no, I don't have it. But I'm just giving some food for thought.

    I think that how things work in the afterlife are very much different from how we understand them from this physical plane. Perhaps, we can't even understand them now at all.

    As you might know, time and space do not exist in the afterlife. It's something that our consciousness sees on this physical plane. So what you are seeing as linear events/lives could be all wrong. Imagine if life is like a play. So, if we have lots of lives, imagine that you are taking part in all the plays at the same time. It does not make much sense, but that is why we might not understand how things work.

    So, I'm just saying.....and showing that the answer could be one that we cannot understand now ;). I myself is having quite a tough life at the moment. I'm not finding answers like you, but at least I am focusing on being positive, following my instinct and gut feeling and trying to live life out of love.

    But we are all different, so I understand. And I also understand that life can be quite frustrating.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  7. Simply to experience not-Heaven. We're like angelic children playing a silly game of make believe; What would it be like to live as imperfect beings in an imperfect realm, a place where we see God's footprints everywhere, but not God? So we created this imperfect world and this imperfect self. Of course this begs the question, Now that we've experienced it why can't we just go back Home? That would be too easy. If you like to do jigsaw puzzles, do you buy a child's puzzle with 25 pieces that you can put together in a few minutes, or something more challenging? Bruce, you're a brave soul to have signed up for such a challenging assignment. If you feel like you've bit off more than you can chew, you are not alone in feeling that way.

    Of course this is only my worldview, your mileage may vary.

    With Lovingkindness (metta),
    vic's myth
     
  8. First, congrats on the new job. Being unemployed and out of funds is brutal, I know, I've been there too. Money doesn't buy happiness, but poverty sure doesn't make you any happier either. And I'm glad you are back, you're a thoughtful and interesting person.

    The gist of your argument, Bruce, seems to be that the Universe (or whatever is the correct term for "everything that exists on all planes") is badly designed. The whole concept should have been set up entirely differently. In your proposal for how the Universe should instead have been designed, you make some interesting points. But I don't want to talk about those.

    What I wonder is, let's stipulate that you are right. We are in the hands of an incompetent God/Force/FSM, doing meaningless exercises for no good reason. Is there some Board of Directors to which we can submit alternate proposals? Can I apply somewhere for a refund? As far as I can see, the only outcome is that you can keep being angry with God.

    But, being a practical sort of person, I wonder how this helps anything? Remaining angry with God (or anyone) only wears out your stomach lining and raises your blood pressure. This will make you less happy in this life, and likely send you even sooner to the Summerland which is just another room in the house of an Idiot. God is (presumably) unaffected. Odds are the universe will keep working the way it works, whether it's stupid or not.

    So, now what?
     
  9. BruceAdama

    BruceAdama Established Member

    Again, thank you all for your posts... I'm glad that people are responding. vic, you make an interesting point about a game of make-believe. However, a game of make-believe by nature is devoid of any chance for any real tangible harm to come to whoever is playing it, because it is after all, make-believe... so there is never any element of genuine risk. See, this is why I make the argument that we need not even come here to begin with. Assuming for the sake of this argument that God is all-powerful and all-knowing, and that as his children, all that knowledge is available to us (in Heaven), would it not make sense to simply access the desired information and learn what we would from Heaven itself? It is just like the game of make-believe... we have the same set of variables to deal with, but the aspect of risk or harm is omitted. And as I have said elsewhere in this forum, I think that God should grant lives on an individual basis, if he is to do it at all, because personally, I do NOT want to experience not-Heaven... I do NOT want to learn any lesson, or experience any hardship. I'd rather just stay in Heaven and have everything I need, without any risk or danger. Is that selfish or immature, perhaps it is. But it is also honest. If YOU want to come here and experience what it is like to lose everything you've ever worked for, or be homeless, or have a disease, then by all means, please be my guest. But don't make me do the same thing, merely to satisfy your curiosity (not you individually, the curiosity of all the souls in Heaven collectively). But leave me out of it, please.

    Celera, you are absolutely right... my argument IS that the universe is badly designed, because it is. I am sorry, but there ARE flaws to how things are, and I am merely trying to explore and explain them. Yours is the absolute BEST analogy I have ever heard, for someone describing my position... I see the universe (or life, in more basic terms) as a company that is being steered in the wrong direction by a CEO that has lost his way, and has lost the capacity to make logical decisions. But what I said to vic above ties in to what I'm about to say to you now, so let me explain more...

    The points I make in my arguments are not based purely on seething hate or a desire to curse God... they are based on things I have actually read in REAL NDE accounts. For instance, above, I said that if someone else wants to come to Earth to experience life, let them do it, I don't want to. Well, I have read at least a few separate NDE accounts where the person experiencing the NDE spoke of being shown a vast library, where all the various books of life were kept, and that upon opening any book, the soul "reading" the book would instantly be able to attain the knowledge, experiences, and feelings of the life (or lives) within that book, and it would be as vivid and as real as if that soul had experienced that life for itself. THIS is why I think that both the veil and continued life on this plane is stupid, because if this account is true, then all the knowledge we learn here is stored forever in Heaven, and is freely accessible to all or any souls who wish it. Thus, there is no reason for us to come back and keep experiencing the same thing over and over and over again. Further, there is also no reason for ALL or most souls to live an Earthly life to gain this knowledge, since again, once learned here, all that knowledge is available to all up there. It's like a letter you type up... first, you type that letter for yourself. But once you hit "send" in your email, that letter is available to anyone in the world, who has access to email, or the ability to extract the letter... so there is no need for anyone to manually duplicate the letter themselves.

    Practically, none of this actually helps anything, other than trying to satisfy my need for an explanation. I want to smash God's veil, and see what I cannot see. Personally, I will do nothing in this life to prolong it... I welcome as quick a departure from it as possible, because once I leave, I am NEVER coming back... I'd rather have God simply destroy my entire soul than ever return after this, because I'm not doing this again. He forced me here once... he won't be doing it again.
     
  10. Intbel

    Intbel New Member

    If you read everything ever written, looked at every photograph and watched every film regarding, say, motor cycling, you still wouldn't know what it is like to ride a motorcycle, and that goes for mostly all other activities. It is not enough to know theory, some things have to be experienced to be fully understood and many things can only be experienced in specific environments.

    You'd have no idea whatsover what Love is, either.

    You would know everything but understand very little of what you know.

    I think your frustration at this lack of understanding would cause you to want to be here to find out and you would agree to be here.

    But then, it seems you already did ...


     

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