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born with severe disabilities

Discussion in 'General Afterlife Discussions' started by Storybud68, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Storybud68

    Storybud68 Active Member

    I often wandered if you were born with severe disabilities and only lived a few months ,what would happen your souls mind would it be always like that?It's hard to imagine choosing to be like that which I've read here,it really doesn't make much sense because you can't really achieve much in life.maybe it's just bad luck as in law of averages that it could happen to a very few.your thoughts greatly appreciated
  2. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    What happens to one's physical body stays with that physical body. When you die you leave your physical body and all its constraints; you're free again as you were before you incarnated.
    Janet likes this.
  3. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    In my opinion, no one chooses to be born with severe disabilities -- or, maybe not "no one", but very few people, if choosing things for our lives is even an option. I think some people are born with disabilities because they unfortunately ended up with the short end of the genetic stick, that's all.

    That said, if a person is born with severe disabilities, and if there is actually an afterlife, then I very much doubt that the person would still have those disabilities once dead, since the disabilities are due to genetics and the physical body, neither of which still constrain a person once that person dies.
  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    I wander between accepting that physical, or emotional, impairments may have been chosen for ultimately beneficial (but almost certainly unknowable) reasons and rejecting the whole notion save for a few special cases - such conditions being down to misfortune.

    I can readily argue both sides of the conversation! :D
  5. Storybud68

    Storybud68 Active Member

    It's a hard question to answer I know.But surely any soul would not choose to be in that situation as it doesn't seem to be of any benefit.If this was the case then souls surely don t have a choice who they are born as in human form .
  6. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Seen through incarnates' eyes how you've suggested things is often how it may look to folk.

    There's not a single answer to a any question - every soul is individual with her/his own 'life plan'. As I said earlier, I could readily argue both sides of the situation but the actuality of the overall situation is unknown to us incarnates. Studying the words of teachers and guides may help you understand the general principles that govern our exsitences assuming you feel attracted by the notions of spiritual life, survival etc. From such guidance you might find a your appreciation changes and a different perspective emerges.

    Then you feel drawn to the possibility that such apparently pointless existences are actually nothing of the sort.
  7. Monika

    Monika Active Member

    Maybe its just so that they come to life in such condition and for short or longer time just because of others. Like to help them in some way to learn something about patience and love or something like that? I dont really know...
    We do affect each other in many different ways in life. So maybe they just come to put affect on others
    Bill Z likes this.
  8. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    To be of service to others in that and other ways is said to be the primary motive of such lives. Yet I realise such a reason would make no sense for many of us. I still can't accept that it's necessarily always the case and I won't make things fit.

    I feel that such outcomes are sometimes, perhaps most times, down to misfortune in the sense that they weren't intended or pre-ordained. It seems a misfortune at the time but with the broader perspective we'll have after passing over we may see matters very differently; nothing lost and much gained perhaps.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  9. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    I think it is possible, but imho it is impossible to be certain that may be the case. There are some who believe that each one of us is both a teacher and a student. Those who are afflicted by some misfortune are (usually) viewed as "teachers", people who enter our life, however briefly, to teach us some lesson. Children and adults can be our teachers, though I understand it may be very difficult indeed to accept that the death of a child is some sort of teaching experience - yes, very difficult to understand and accept. Once we cross over, we will understand, perhaps.
  10. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    This is a great question! For what it's worth, I will give you the answer that those that we used to think were dead who are at more advanced spiritual levels will generally give us. This isn't my opinion, and I can't argue with the people here who personally don't like this answer; I only can say that our perspective is narrow and skewed when we are in these bodies, and we have conscious access to less than 5% of our eternal minds until we can get free of our brains. We should remain open to the fact that after we transition and are back in our "right minds," a lot of things are going to look different to us! The more elevated eternal beings say that:

    1) Nearly all our lives are planned, especially including setbacks, handicaps, and exit points. And we are adjusting our life-plans with the help of our guides throughout our lives, as we deal more or less well with the problems we have chosen to confront this time around.

    I know that some of our members hate this concept! But the evidence for it is such that to refuse to be open-minded about the possibility that this is happening is going to distort your whole understanding of what actually is going on.

    2) All those who die as sub-adults (not sure about what that means, and I don't think there is an age cut-off, but I have assumed mid-twenties or younger) are in fact beings who are so spiritually elevated that they don't need future lessons on earth. They choose to come back a time or two more as a gift to the families who will love and lose them. Remember that not all gifts are fun to receive! But the loss of a child is for many people a profound spiritual lesson, and for the being who chose to be that child there is a great deal of inconvenience and discomfort involved in taking that brief - and often much-impaired! - lifetime.

    The one word that bothers me in that whole explanation is the first one: "All." It has been my experience that there are no absolutes when we are talking about eternal life! But I have heard beings insist on that word, so I use it. I think that if I were the parent of a child who had died young I would find these advanced beings' insistence that my child wasn't cheated, but instead my child is an spiritually elevated being who came just to give me a spiritual gift, to be quite comforting.
    Widdershins3 and pandora97 like this.
  11. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Re: "It's hard to imagine choosing to be like that which I've read here,it really doesn't make much sense because you can't really achieve much in life."
    What is "achieving"? What makes "sense" - or not? What is "life"? Why is it "hard to imagine" anything?
    IMO, the best source for understanding who and why we are such and such and what happens in the physical plane, can be found in the book: GROWING UP IN HEAVEN ~ by James Van Praagh [http://afterlifeforums.com/threads/writing-to-children-in-heaven-afterlife.2281/#post-44901 ...also found at Ebay for $3.74, free shipping!.. in which children, who have passed through the physical plane, tell their parents about the child's experiences here and in Heaven and their purpose for passing through this plane. Read it and believe them or not! This book is also available as a FREE E-book - find it at Google.
    It seems that ALL of us choose and design our earthly (or whatever) adventures for whatever "reasons" we have - which may not make any sense to an Incarnate's mind. Oh well!
    The spiritual answer: "What will be, will be." The Mortal answer: "I don't know!" I believe that it is possible to actually "know" things that most of us do not (currently) know so - on with the show...........
    Go here to learn a lot about this life and the afterlife/heaven.......
    good luck.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
    Widdershins3 likes this.
  12. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Another answer might be "What will be is what was meant to be - broadly." ;) But the Devil is in the detail which may not be a fixed, invariable item. Add to that one might ask who knows who knows - or indeed what they know?

    Finally who knows what we might already know but as incarnates do not have conscious access to - even if it's shaping our lives if not our outlook? :confused:
  13. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    Speaking as a member who disagrees with this view -- it's not that I "hate this concept", it's that I do not believe that what you have stated is the case. That is, if there is an afterlife (and a "beforelife"), then I think it may be that sometimes, some people choose some of the major events in their lives, but I do not believe that we all choose all the important people, events, circumstances, etc., of our lives. There is no definitive proof either way, of course; it's just a matter of what one believes. You believe that there are certain people who have died and who now communicate with some still living, and who have relayed certain information regarding these matters. While I do not discount that possibility, I also do not find the information supposedly provided by these spirits to be definitive proof, for a number of reasons. It's proof enough for you, it is not proof enough for me, that's fine.
  14. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    It's a great question whose principle is not limited solely to physical disabilities. I'm unable to remember if the teacher who has much influenced me - Silver Birch - replied specifically to any similar questions but I'd be surprised if he hadn't. But that doesn't help any! :rolleyes:

    The "5%" mention is interesting as it's what I heard in episode 1 of 'The Good Place'! :D I'm guessing that figure is illustrative rather than factual. :) It's a similar point, though, to one I've often made about our perspectives. In-the-body our perspective is very limited; when we leave our body we lose its constraints, we're told we can 'see' (appreciate) far more.

    That appeals to my reason....

    Do they mean "Nearly the whole of our lives (implying everyone's lives)..." are planned etc. or do they mean the lives of nearly all of us are planned? In other words for some of us they're not? See how language usage can change the meaning?

    Being open-minded to a reasonable possibility is my favored position but without being persuaded about it your understanding still isn't likely to be improved - the latter needs the former to happen.

    I have great difficulty conceding that as a reasonable possibility..... All? :confused:

    The principle appeals to my reason but suggesting it's that way in all cases leaves me struggling....

    The loss of a child is a profound learning experience - 'lesson' suggests it was planned by a teacher. I'm not persuaded all such loss was planned. Not too long now, though, before I'll be able to investigate this situation first-hand! ;)

    And spiritually-advanced beings insisted there would be no World War Two.... I think it's reasonable not to accept everything that is heard - even from such individuals. Only accept what appeals to your reason.

    I am in that situation. I would accept the insistence you describe, however, only from individuals I'm confident are spiritually elevated and whose words were corroborated to my satisfaction. As I wrote earlier, though, not too long now before I'll be able to investigate this situation first-hand! :p
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  15. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Although I understand your wish to make the point that you don't hate the concept it's hardly credible to be disagreeing with details when you're not persuaded in the first place about the principle.

    Unless and until you're persuaded about the fundamental premise of survival then all the rest means as little as fiction or myth written about the subject. And for anyone who maintains it's only others' belief then it's demeaning of the values of honest and genuine individuals.

    I'm pretty confident that Roberta doesn't describe it as proof.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  16. Kurt

    Kurt Well-Known Member

    So do kids in heaven get pampered or are they exposed to negativity as well to give them life experience (if that is what it can be called...) & show that there is evil in the universe?
  17. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    You need to follow what's been written in this thread to give you a flavor of what has been taught happens. Then see what appeals to your reason.
    Kurt likes this.
  18. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    I was disagreeing with the assertion that "nearly all our lives are planned", not with the possible details. As I said, I acknowledge that there may be some truth to it, but I don't believe that stating it as a definitive fact is appropriate, since it cannot actually be known.

    Please clarify what you mean by this part of your response, because I don't understand: "And for anyone who maintains it's only others' belief then it's demeaning of the values of honest and genuine individuals."

    Roberta said that what she posted was not her opinion, but was information provided by those who had died and then relayed that information to the living. She also referred to the information she believes to have been relayed by those spirits as "evidence". To me, those two statements pretty clearly indicate that she views it as proof, though she didn't use that word.
  19. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Roberta had quoted a source who insisted that was the case. I wasn't persuaded by what had been said but in the 'matters spiritual' field what we discuss and debate are only definitive facts if they relate to our personal experiences. We may misinterpret them and others may not accept them as facts but that doesn't change their status for us or for others who have experiences of their own that persuade them.

    You had written: "There is no definitive proof either way, of course; it's just a matter of what one believes. You believe that there are certain people who have died and who now communicate with some still living, and who have relayed certain information regarding these matters."

    You will have seen my earlier response to that particular communicated detail. Those who experience trans-dimensional communication may gain a certain level of understanding that is very different from the belief we may once have held if indeed we held any belief at all. By dint of our experiences it becomes something different from belief. To suggest it is only belief appears to try to diminish the values that individuals have found from their experiences, to diminish what they learned from them and how it changes their approach to life.

    Whether Roberta sees it as proof is moot but not what she said anyway.
  20. bluebird

    bluebird Well-Known Member

    If I'm understanding you correctly, then I agree with what you said in your first paragraph -- that the opinions of others shouldn't necessarily change the views about an experience of those who actually undergo that experience. I'm not trying to tell anyone who has had a particular (spiritual/afterlife/etc.) experience that what s/he experienced isn't real; I only object to people stating a particular viewpoint on the afterlife and such matters as if it has been proven to be true and should be accepted as such by anyone other than the experiencer.

    Thank you for clarifying your previous comment. I truly have no desire or intention to undermine anyone's beliefs or the value they find in their experiences, how it may change their life, etc. However, it is still a matter of belief. Perhaps their belief is correct, in that they did communicate with a dead loved one, or visit the afterlife, or whatever they say their experience may be, and I wouldn't argue against them believing that, or against finding that their experience is sufficient proof/evidence for them as to the existence of an afterlife. What I would argue against, however, is any assertion that everyone else should believe the same thing, or that everyone else should believe that it proves anything overall. To me, it's much the same as religion -- believe Jesus is God (or the Son of God), believe Mohammed was the Prophet, believe Krishna is a God, believe that there are no gods, whatever you like, so long as you don't try to make other people believe the same thing, realize that what constituted proof/evidence to you does not necessarily constitute proof/evidence to others, and recognize the right of others to believe differently than you do. (*Note: all the references to "you" are meant to be the "universal you", not meant to mean "mac".)

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