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assisted to die

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by mac, Aug 5, 2017.

?

Should there be legalised medical assistance?

  1. no

    14.3%
  2. yes with safeguards

    85.7%
Thread Status:
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  1. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Well, you're obviously the "power behind the throne" :rolleyes: so just have me BANNED from your own, personal forum here! :eek:
    Problem solved!
     
  2. mac

    mac senior contributor

    really, jimrich? Top dog and master of ALF? More bombast - shidad! I am totally confident that Roberta and any other member will speak for herself or for himself but that doesn't mean I can't also respond. That's to any posting made by any member made in a public forum. And when your questions offend me I'll tell you so - seems you're not keen on anyone demurring. Care to share why that is?


    Who cares? You cares! Or else what are you blethering on about? laugh out loud indeed......


    SHOUTING again jimrich? A smart person declaring I was on his 'Ignore' list wouldn't have back-tracked on all his earlier bluster.....



    I hope so too but whatever she feels won't change how I feel. As for suicide it was I who started this thread and it's I who has repeatedly explained the basis of the questions I posed. And it's you who has repeatedly changed the issues to be all about you. There are others in this world, you know; they matter too.


    I'll take up the issue of suicide with whomever I choose. And when I wish to speak to Roberta I'll do it because I wish to and not because you dictate my need!
     
  3. mac

    mac senior contributor

    Just what age are you! And how did you get to be the way you are?
     
  4. mac

    mac senior contributor

    Roberta when you get chance would you please lock or simply delete this thread as it's not fit for purpose? thank you
     
  5. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Since 6 members have vote "yes" to allow medical assistance to die and no member has voted "no", this thread seems to have no purpose!
    Roberta, when you get a chance would you please offer at least one more opinion or comment before you delete this thread since perhaps at least 6 members might be interested in your responses here.
     
  6. mac

    mac senior contributor

    The thread's a few days old and many members may be on vacation and unable to vote anyway.

    Of course the thread did once have a purpose but that's been lost in our bickering - yes the both of us! I'm prepared to accept my part in our disagreement and have said all I have to say.

    The basis of this poll-thread was, and remains, as I said in posting #4: "This poll is not about machine assisted living or Advance Directives and an Advance Directive can't mandate someone else to end a person's life. This thread is about the situation where a medically qualified person would take prescribed steps deliberately to bring to an end the life of another - effectively to actively end the life of that individual.

    Some US states allow it already, Canada passed a limited law last year and Dignitas in Switzerland has been operating for some time. I expect there are other places. Should the rest of us enjoy a similar situation?"
     
  7. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Is Roberta on vacation?:oops:
     
  8. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Hmmm, I see this as a perfectly reasonable, adult conversation. Sorry you don't.
    So, exactly what is "my part" (your part) in what you see as a "disagreement"?

    We'll see, ha, ha, ha!

    The basis of this poll-thread was, and remains, as I said in posting #4: "This poll is not about machine assisted living or Advance Directives and an Advance Directive can't mandate someone else to end a person's life. This thread is about the situation where a medically qualified person would take prescribed steps deliberately to bring to an end the life of another - effectively to actively end the life of that individual.

    Some US states allow it already, Canada passed a limited law last year and Dignitas in Switzerland has been operating for some time. I expect there are other places.
    Should the rest of us enjoy a similar situation?" [/QUOTE]
    LOL, should you?
     
  9. mac

    mac senior contributor

    There's no need to be sorry that I don't see it your way. I'm quite relieved that I don't.

    I'm going to leave you to decide that....


    Ha, ha, ha? Someone make a joke? :rolleyes:

    LOL? So you 'laugh out loud' about this serious topic, do you? shidad :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  10. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Actually, I do get here almost every day! My life has become impossible at this point - I get four hours or so of sleep per night - because I am involved in a truly gigantic project that I cannot yet make public, and meanwhile I am preparing to give three different presentations at the Symposium next month. But still I do my best to get here daily.

    To respond to the topic of this thread: I am troubled by the topic of assisted suicide, but I believe in personal choice in all things so I can't really vote to ban it. For me it isn't yes or no; for me it's more like "While most people don't understand what reality is and what our lives are and what is actually going on, I don't think that assisted suicide should be a government-urged option; but still, I don't want it banned, either. It's not the government's business!" I didn't see that option listed, so I didn't vote.

    And where your bickering is concerned, Jimrich and Mac, will you please both cut it out now?
     
  11. mac

    mac senior contributor

    I already did that, Roberta.....
     
  12. mac

    mac senior contributor

    And I was serious with my request. When you have the time please. I won't try anything so dumb again, I promise.
     
  13. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    What is your request??
     
  14. mac

    mac senior contributor

    posting #24, lose/lock this thread please
     
  15. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Roberta, I am not sure why the term "suicide" crept into this thread and I believe we could toss semantics around all day long and still never agree on anything but, allowing nature to take it's course to end someone's life WITHOUT using macines or drugs to artificially keep the doomed person alive is way different than someone taking the Jack Kevorkian methods or whatever they can to commit suicide.
    The original OP stated: "If you had the opportunity to vote whether your state, province, region or country should allow medical assistance to die, how would you vote?" So that question says nothing about SUICIDE but only places some non specific condition on one's "death". In my own direct experience of killing several cats and my wife, the "assistance" that the professionals gave them was to allow nature to take it's course in the least painful and most humane way possible at the time they all DIED but no one was "medically assisted" to commit suicide (kill them self)! I probably could have kept the very sick and ailing cats and also my very sick and suffering wife right here at home and allowed them to suffer horribly and finally die of "natural causes" but I didn't. I asked for medical professionals to help nature take its course for both our pets and my wife Irene. There never was any intention to have or let any of them commit suicide.

    I agree that the voting process should have included other options to make any sense. Perhaps you can open up a thread to discuss the "assisted end of life" question as I believe a lot of folks are facing that issue every day now. I did. In the case of my aging and ill cats, it was simple yet painful. Once my wife and I made out our Advance Directives, questions about death were still painful but much easier to face when the end came. The good nows is that our cats and Irene DID NOT DIE (with their bodies)!
     
  16. mac

    mac senior contributor

    The voting choices were exactly the ones the thread starter intended - the binary choice wasn't a mistake.

    The premise of the choice was explained in the first couple of postings.

    The vote was not about suicide - the right to end one's own life isn't in dispute.

    The vote was not about assisted suicide.

    The vote was not about Advance Directives.

    The vote was not about keeping individuals alive by tethering them to devices etc.

    There is a website of space available here on ALF to start a new thread and discuss all those, and any other, issues.

    The vote was about direct medical action to bring to an end the life of another - Dignitas, for example, doesn't work that way; the recent Canadian system does.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  17. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

    Re: "The vote was about direct medical action to bring to an end the life of another - Dignitas, for example, doesn't work that way; the recent Canadian system does."
    I don't know much about Dignitas (http://www.dignitas.ch/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=20&lang=en) or the "Canadian system" (whatever that is?) BUT I do know exactly how (not the actual drug used) our cats were put to death (to sleep if it makes you feel better!) - with dignity by using "direct medical action" and I'd vote yes for that procedure anytime since it was both humane and completely PAINLESS for our pets. The "direct medical action" to KILL my wife was used in favor of simply removing the disallowed machinery the hospital staff was using to "keep her alive" rather than let nature take it's course and "end" her life BEFORE the staff shoved tubes down her throat (Intubated her). If someone had followed her Advance Directives, she would have crossed over (died naturally) many hours before the ICU staff finally let her go. Again, I would and did vote YES on the OP question above since what happened to Irene was (almost) humane and painless.
    We (Irene and I) could not have gone to Dignitas, etc. anyway, so we just did the best we could.
    I would suggest that the OP and anyone interested should start a thread to discuss Dignitas, the "Canadian system" (??) and assisted DEATH, in any of its forms, for your own peace of mind. I would love to read about the actual experiences of any other ALF member who has had to have a pet or human being put to death!
    It's a very painful and frightening topic so - good luck............
     
  18. mac

    mac senior contributor

    SHIDAD
     
  19. mac

    mac senior contributor

    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  20. jimrich

    jimrich Active Member

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