1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Afterlife Forums is an online, interactive community designed to give seekers direct access to prominent researchers, to afterlife literature, and to one another in order to foster both spiritual growth and public interest in life after death.

Animal Souls

Discussion in 'After-Death Communication' started by BrokenSpiral, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. Do wild animals have souls? You answered a question earlier by saying that animals loved by a person will be waiting in heaven, which implies that wild animals don't exist in the next world. Do they just reincarnate automatically, or do souls only arise in/from humans?
  2. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    There is abundant evidence that every living thing is animated by more or less the same mind-energy. Indeed, experiments suggest that also plants, and even single plant cells can communicate with human minds, which suggests that mind-energy must exist even at the cellular level. (Read The Secret Life of Plants if you want to be boggled!)

    Human mind-energy (or soul) seems to be different in degree but not in kind from the mind-energy of animals. And of course there is no real difference between the mind-energy of a domestic animal and that of a wild one. Yet, you are right: birds and small wild animals are reported in the afterlife literature, but it appears from evidence that every larger animal in the Summerland levels is one that has been loved by a human being.

    We are told by channeled upper-level entities who have been asked this question that wild animals have species-specific group souls. They never separate from that group mind-energy to the extent that humans and their pets do - individuality is important to us, but not to them - and when they die, they return to that same group mind-energy. A few Summerland tourists have reported visiting enormous savannas teeming with wild animals, and that is what I like to imagine happens: wild animals that die spend time knee-deep in grass and running for joy and grooming one another before perhaps coming back for another life here. I haven't seen anywhere the question addressed of whether a specific wildebeest or kangaroo reincarnates as that same individual animal; but then there are hints that human reincarnation is not as individual as we think it is, either. I should add that farm and circus animals that people have loved can be found in the Summerland, which again suggests that wild animals likely have an afterlife existence somewhere.

    Mind-energy is eternal. It never began, and it never will end. Apparently that fact includes the mind-energy of every living thing.
  3. You can also consider the possibility that we do not always reincarnate as the same species, as the Buddhists believe - this would support the theory that we remain connected to entities that we interacted with, regardless of species.

    This would explain why some humans are born with an innate empathy for animals and nature at birth - that they themselves may have been an animal or other life form in a previous life.
  4. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    This is really cutting-edge stuff! Whether we ever incarnate as animals is something I have wondered about, but I have found no evidence after decades of seeking it that someone who mistreats horses (for example) might then spend a lifetime as a horse in order to build a better empathy for horses. I have never found an afterlife communication that even hints that animal incarnations might mix with human incarnations. What I have found, though, is very interesting! And it's this:

    1) All living things seem to have some form of consciousness, and in plants that consciousness apparently exists at the cellular level. This is why some extraordinary experiments have been done in which plants appear to read people's minds. And animals which have been very close to and greatly loved by people while alive are abundant in the Summerland... and some of them can communicate with people telepathically and seem to be very nearly human. SO... one of the things that I would love to learn more about is whether in fact consciousness can develop through lifetimes, so - for example - tree cells that have been much loved by birds could develop bird-consciousness and later be born as birds, and dogs that have been much loved by people could develop human consciousness and later incarnate as humans. There are small but fascinating hints, in other words, that the consciousness levels of ALL life-forms may be evolving, so each of us in the unimaginable past (all of which, of course, somehow is happening right now) may have spent time living as a trilobite, and then as a dinosaur and then as a... ?

    2) There are hints that as part of our afterlife development we can choose to spend time briefly joined with the mind of a horse or a dog or bit of intelligent pond-scum on the planet Xorx, or whatever. We don't live a whole life that way, in other words, but we can connect briefly to the brains of non-human bodies. This sort of trying out what it's like to be a non-human life-form may even be common, since apparently it's fun! Dead people who have described doing it generally talk about the experience much as you or I would talk about a trip to Disneyland.

    - Once scientists accept the reality that life is eternal and reincarnation happens, my guess is that we will soon have definitive answers to all these questions. Meanwhile, it's great fun to speculate!
  5. Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  6. So, do individual cells have consciousness, or is it restricted to multi-cellular organisms only? I'm having some difficulty with the idea that plankton or coral is conscious to any significant degree...
  7. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I realize how amazing this sounds, but it appears to be individual plant cells that are able to communicate with human beings mentally... that is, they can pick up our intentions as we form them in our minds and react in a way that can be picked up on a galvanometer. The first successful experiments in this area were conducted about fifty years ago, and when the implications of this are so far beyond phenomenal it is amazing to me that so few people still know about them!
  8. I enjoy sharing sources of knowledge which may support further pursuit of enlightenment on these subjects.

    I do know that plan cells, as well as yogurt bacteria, can communicate with each other. This has been repeated under laboratory conditions, and has been observed in the medical field. While the exact "contents" of these thoughts are yet to be quantified, the interactions are indeed physically occurring. These experiments lend credence to the validity of this scientific field and further research.

    There is a relatively new school of theory and study based on "Quantum Interconnectedness". Basically, scientists have discovered that even at a subatomic level, particles which has been split -- can communicate with each other instantaneously, over any distance. In summary, these discoveries support the theory that everything in the world is "interconnected" through one large framework or "web" of communication. Basically, that all living organisms can communicate and hold a certain amount of "consciousness" (whether this is a more simplified "version" of consciousness for varying types of life - or cell structures versus human for example, has yet to be quantified)

    (a short article explaining this concept in simplified terms: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...um-interconnectedness/articleshow/4289803.cms)

    With "Quantum Interconnectedness" being touched upon as a possible contributing factor --

    We might also consider the affect of what is called "Primary Perception" -- essentially that cells themselves possess a unique "cellular memory". There is a school of research now studying how cells communicate with each other -- and what messages or information is being sent. This theory relies on the quantum speculation that the cells "must have been connected" at some point. In summary, this line of thought lends evidence to support that cells do indeed have a "kind of consciousness". (although much different than the complex consciousness we understand as humans)

    (short article offering an overview of this theory here: http://primaryperception.com/scientific-instincs/)

    However, if by conjecture we add the "Quantum Interconnectedness" to the "Primary Perception" theories, (which are entirely compatible), it seems to indicate that not only do cells and plant life communicate - and by communicate have some kind of message to convey -- this indicates a rudimentary consciousness -- basically, that if we are "communicating" that there is a message to be sent, and an understanding that there is a "recipient on the other side". This means that at some level, even cells understand there is something "out there" and they are "trying to send a message".

    In summary, in addition to the above two supporting theories, this attempt at communication itself - on a cellular level -- indicates that cells have a certain amount of "awareness" or "consciousness".
  9. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Thank you for another wonderful set of insights! All my study of the afterlife evidence and my fumbling attempts to teach myself quantum physics have led me to agree with everything you say here. The evidence entirely supports it, and the way you have put it together is brilliant. I can add nothing, but perhaps I can build some speculations on your great foundation:

    1) It seems very likely - indeed, I'd call it certain - that everything that exists is composed of and governed by a primal non-material energy without size or form that many researchers call consciousness. I won't call it God, but it is what religions that believe they have found God actually have found hints of; and this underlying creative consciousness is clearly (from the evidence) both loving and self-aware. So let's use a big C and call it Consciousness.

    2) Time, space, and matter (with its corresponding energy) are illusions. If you come at this from the viewpoint of the afterlife evidence, it is much easier to grasp these truths! While here, we can imagine how all of this could exist without Consciousness, but after we die there is no doubt what's going on. In fact, there is no such thing as size - the universe is both infinite and at the same time smaller than a speck of dust. Without time, all our earth-lives are happening simultaneously. Without matter/energy, all eight or so layers of reality exist in precisely the same place. And they are all illusory. Nothing is real except Consciousness! Fortunately, however, the evidence is strong that our minds are all a part of that Consciousness. Essentially, your mind is a part of God.

    3) Our brains are just receivers and transmitters. Our minds are part of that one continuous Mind, and we exist all together in spaceless and non-material eternity.

    4) As you say, all living cells possess some level of consciousness and can communicate with one another. Plant cells for sure, and single-celled organisms, and almost certainly animal cells as well.

    - Okay, all of that is what the evidence confirms so abundantly that I am pretty sure that it's true. Now, here is what I still wonder about:

    1) What does it mean for matter to be composed of Consciousness? Are molecules of matter therefore also conscious? Or is matter a kind of projection of Mind, so it is indeed a pure and lifeless and unaware illusion?

    2) What is the relationship between Consciousness and awareness? Are they not aspects of the same thing? I think they may be, which is one reason why I have come to believe that the universe is a lifeless projection, but I don't know. I would love to know!

    3) Is life a subset of Consciousness? So, when something is "alive," what we are seeing is an illusion of matter that has been projected by Consciousness now being animated by Consciousness? A cell that is alive has picked up the Consciousness signal, much as our brains pick up the signals of our minds; then when it then dies, that signal is broken so it becomes inert matter, no different from a rock?

    4) Is all of matter alive? We are told by ascended beings that there are planets where living things would not be recognized by us as living, but instead they would seem to be as inert as rocks. So... are the rocks and dirt around us also somehow and on some level living beings? And maybe even somehow conscious? The water on the afterlife levels is alive and conscious (as Jesus memorably told us). So, what about the water around us here?

    5) Does Consciousness evolve? We know that Earth is a school for us, and that we are here to learn to love and forgive. Are animals also here to learn lessons? The animals in the Summerland apparently are able to communicate with us telepathically, and I have read some accounts which suggest that animals that have lived closely with people can begin incarnations as human beings. There is not enough evidence of any of this for us to be able to draw real conclusions, but it certainly does make you wonder! I even have wondered whether all levels of consciousness - from that of a single plant- or animal-cell to that of a human being - is evolving, so it goes through plants and then animals in thousands of completed lives and eventually it becomes us. This thought is even more boggling when you remember that all our lives are happening at once and are affecting one another - past, present, future - so if we have had past lives as animals and even plants, all those lives could be affecting us as well! There is not enough evidence for us to investigate any of this definitively, but it would be consistent with what we know.

    - The more I learn, the more impatient I become for mainstream science to overcome its dogmatic grounding in atheism and dare to investigate the afterlife evidence. From there, mainstream researchers soon will venture ahead - just as excited as we are! - and it won't be long before they can start to answer all these questions and many more. At this point, the primary role of Consciousness is a certainty... but scientists don't know that yet. The fact that human life is eternal is a certainty... but again, scientists have no idea. I do think, though, that as you and I put more and more and more facts together, eventually the weight of all this information is going to tip those scientific scales. A breakthrough is coming. We live in exciting times!
  10. Hello again brave souls!

    Personally there is something incredibly brave and noble about this quest for knowledge in these areas – specifically consciousness, communication and the potential of the human mind. Brave and noble in the sense that discussing these issues often brings denial, ridicule or even combativeness.

    The great news is that there are indeed some incredible, brilliant, brave – and still respected – scientists who are pursuing this passionately. It truly is an amazing an exciting time. I don’t think many people realize just how big this can (and will) eventually be…

    I must clarify that I am weak in physics – I rely extensively on experts in these areas – specifically so that I can focus on the higher goal of further research, theory and conjecture. I leave the complex data to these brilliant minds and focus on making connections between spiritual experiences and scientific research. I feel strongly that we are on the cusp of a huge break-through in traditional scientific community accepting PSi phenomenon as a respected line of legitimate pursuit. (and by default, all secondary and tertiary fields of similar importance – consciousness, reincarnation, etc) To emphasize – this breakthrough for mankind can potentially be so groundbreaking as to compare with humanities acceptance that the world is not flat!

    This “communication” we have been discussing at a cellular and subatomic level – the “unexpected coherence between distant entities” is often referred to by the scientific community as “non-locality”. In writing on the philosophical implications of non-locality, physicist Henry Stapp of the University of California at Berkeley states that this quantum connection could be the “most profound discovery in all of science.” From the writings of Bohm and Stapp, it is beginning to appear that one cannot understand quantum mechanics without including consciousness, and this limitless awareness is not subject to ordinary limitations of distance in time or space.

    In summary, we now have substantial numbers of the respected scientific community stepping forward in support of these pursuits – and will begin to see increased funding and activity in the academic community.

    In response to your thoughts and observations, I offer these considerations;

    1) What does it mean for matter to be composed of Consciousness? Are molecules of matter therefore also conscious? Or is matter a kind of projection of Mind, so it is indeed a pure and lifeless and unaware illusion?
    I think the underlying question is to define “consciousness”. We relate this to human terms – but we possess the most complex mind in nature. Quantum Interconnectedness theory has demonstrated that even subatomic particles that have been split (they are in fact “less than a molecule”) display a type of “communication” – an “interconnectedness”. Some might argue that “interconnectedness” in this sense is the basic, simplified form of consciousness – the earliest form of “awareness”. One of the biggest philosophical questions is to consider what constitutes the definition and criteria of “consciousness” – to then create a standardized vocabulary and base understanding for further communication.

    2) What is the relationship between Consciousness and awareness? Are they not aspects of the same thing? I think they may be, which is one reason why I have come to believe that the universe is a lifeless projection, but I don't know. I would love to know!
    I think you are on to something. In the preface of Mind at Large, Russel Targ wrote: “What we discover from the data of PSI research is that we are capable of expanded awareness far beyond our physical bodies – that formless, unlimited awareness may be who we really are.
    The principal scientific finding, in fact, of the research described here is that there is not yet any known spatial or temporal limit to our awareness. It appears that, in consciousness, there is only one of us here. Hi Holiness the Dali Lama has remarked that enlightenment is “no separate existence.” The message of awakened spiritual teachers throughout history, as well as the quantum physicists, today reminds us that “separation is an illusion”
    Your point of 'universe as a lifeless projection' made me think how we may just be 'formless unlimited awareness', creating everything through some interconnected universal projection.

    3) Is life a subset of Consciousness? So, when something is "alive," what we are seeing is an illusion of matter that has been projected by Consciousness now being animated by Consciousness? A cell that is alive has picked up the Consciousness signal, much as our brains pick up the signals of our minds; then when it then dies, that signal is broken so it becomes inert matter, no different from a rock?

    To me this speaks to that great philosophical question of the “soul”. Many theorize that the soul or “life force” is energy. This is a line of research and pursuit all unto itself. However, if we assume that there is such a thing as “life force”, a soul, or some kind of “energy” in living things – the laws of the universe dictate that all matter is made of energy – and that energy does not simply disappear – it simply changes form. (from matter to smoke to gas, for a crude example) This lends support to the theory that the energy of the “life force” or soul must go somewhere – or change into something.
    To me this seems to indicate that there can indeed be a separation of the “spirit” or “soul” from the material matter. (inert matter) What exactly happens to this energy – or whether we can determine definitively that this energy actually exists - is another great topic in itself.

    4) Is all of matter alive? We are told by ascended beings that there are planets where living things would not be recognized by us as living, but instead they would seem to be as inert as rocks. So... are the rocks and dirt around us also somehow and on some level living beings? And maybe even somehow conscious? The water on the afterlife levels is alive and conscious (as Jesus memorably told us). So, what about the water around us here?
    I know that Native American Indians such as the coastal Miwok of California believed that rocks, mounds and “inert” objects do indeed possess life, and consciousness. Indeed – if we theorize for a moment following some lines of eastern philosophy – “we are reincarnated in order to gain separation from the whole and to develop individually here on earth” (in order to progress as a soul) – Why could we not come back as a rock, or a mound of dirt?
    Also - this seems to relate to number 1 above - what defines "living"? Maybe - if we assume "life" in its most basic sense is something that possesses rudimentary awareness - or "interconnectedness" - then everything - even down to the subatomic level - could be considered "living".

    5) Does Consciousness evolve?
    I agree! :)

    Busy as usual, but hope to get back to discussions asap!
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2011
  11. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I love your optimism, Pescado! I try to maintain my own, but after so many years it can be hard. Doing this research for decades and trying to learn from other seekers and share the truth with those eager for it doesn't feel particularly brave to me. Instead, I think that most of us doing this work feel inadequate to the task. Yes, there are some with scientific training, and a few who can do it for a living; but most of us are just curious people with families and day jobs and the usual pressures who nevertheless feel driven to learn the truth. And there IS an objective truth! What is most astounding is that all the hundreds of independent people piecing it together for themselves are discovering exactly the same reality. When I first met Craig Hogan (the author of Your Eternal Self), we spent a weekend completing each other's sentences.

    What frustrates me is knowing now that the afterlife evidence reveals a greater reality that is entirely supported by both quantum physics and the teachings of Jesus, and finding that still both mainstream science and mainstream religion stonewall it completely. I attended a wonderful conference last fall of open-minded scientists and Evangelical Christians called The Vibrant Dance of Faith and Science, and they talked there about how important it was for both sides to communicate over the fence between them. When I tried to tell some of those earnest folks that in fact there were two fences, not one, and each side was calling to one another across an enormous valley full of evidence that was highly relevant to both faith and science, they gave me the odd sort of patient look that we tend to reserve for harmless crazies.

    The breakthrough will come in physics, not religion. Most religions are happy to remain closed systems. But science has just got to get past its old insistence on atheism as a basic dogma, and that will happen. Scientists are curious by nature, and we know that science advances by deaths. If those of us who are learning the truth continue to try to bring it mainstream, sooner or later it is going to reach some bright-eyed fourth-grade future physicist. She will start to read afterlife evidence at the age of maybe ten or twelve, before she learns that it is verboten. We are all working now to help the curious and the bereaved and those who are afraid of death, but also we are working to get the truth into the mind of that fourth-grader. When her early interest in the afterlife evidence combines with her later physics PhD, the eventual result will be her Nobel Prize for developing a Consciousness Theory of Everything. And then, for all of us, the world will change ;-)!
  12. To elaborate my point on bravery - is that many people (specifically in the scientific community) are ostracized and ridiculed for considering subjects outside the norm. To risk damage to your career - to the extent that research funding and professional associations are sacrificed -- seems brave to a certain extent. Brave similar to how early proponents of a round earth - or the sun being the center of the universe -- were ridiculed and condemned by society at large.

    You are an expert in your field -- and there aren't very many like you. I found this forum for a reason. My thought is to learn.

    I too follow the school of thought that we should all seek our own answers -- and to question everything. I was raised Protestant early in life, and found some very wonderful aspects to organized religion - but did not continue to adhere to all practices strictly. I do understand faith. Later I studied other religions and philosophies, and still strive to keep an open mind and to consider all points of view.

    Obviously our American educational system places a strong emphasis on science. I think we place an over-emphasis on science, to the extent that it has been the new religion for some time. While science has its place, it can blind us with its limitations. Unfortunately -- for better or worse -- right now it is the language that must be used to legitimize any potential academic pursuit. The good side is that the evidence will indeed be irrefutable. Once substantial funding is made available, it will only be a matter of time for revolutionary discoveries allowing new tools and methods to measure and define psi phenomenon. (and by default all secondary and tertiary fields of similar importance)

    One of the challenges I have seen is that -- like you indicated religion can be concrete on certain subjects -- the belief that life only exists on earth, that man came from Adam and Eve, evolution is false, etc. Science too, on it's side can be inflexible -- refuting solid evidence to preserve some antiquated notion(s) -- that animals do not have emotions, psi phenomenon is fake, the end of physics is near, etc.

    Both sides refute psi phenomenon - from the religious side often as witchcraft or black magic -- on the science side as fraudulent charlatans promoting mythology. The same can of course be said for reincarnation, etc.

    From what I have seen, I consider various religions to be essentially the same teachings of the same God, but with varying labels and names. At this moment my opinion is that there are truths and misinterpretations in all religions - no single one holds all the answers. I do sincerely hope religion is not lost entirely in the realization of knowledge -- the risk that we focus exclusively on the scientific findings outside of a spiritual context.

    And to add the chaos factor there are the groups still dedicated to supporting outdated, antiquated views -- and these are not jokes -- sincerely and passionately promoting the theory the world is indeed flat. (www.theflatearthsociety.org)

    I sincerely appreciate your thoughts and your time in this discussion!
  13. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Oh, where to begin? I have come to think of you as my forums-counselor, Pescado, and I'm grateful that you encourage me to vent. I am realizing that my cheerful optimism through life that eventually - soon! - this essential knowledge is going to hit the mainstream and uplift humankind has started to flag. There is a tremendous body of absolutely consistent afterlife evidence accumulated over nearly 200 years, and it agrees with the results of quantum physics experiments, and it agrees with the Gospel teachings of Jesus, and STILL it is ignored by mainstream scientists?? I wouldn't mind if they disagreed with my interpretations of the evidence. I will be thrilled, actually, when (as will happen) some careful and credible researchers look at the evidence and see things that I have not seen, or even utterly refute my conclusions. But not even to LOOK at so much evidence? To decide that certain aspects of reality are not worthy of mainstream scientific study? I thought that exploring new frontiers was supposed to be the whole point of the sciences! If they refuse even to to look at the afterlife evidence, then what else are they refusing to see?

    Those few researchers with scientific credentials who dare to make their careers in doing afterlife research are indeed brave and wonderful! And all of them - Raymond Moody, Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, Gary Schwartz, every modern credentialed researcher that I am aware of - started out as a skeptic, and not a believer. Some began to study the afterlife evidence in order to debunk and dismiss it, while others simply stumbled upon it and dared to explore and then validate it. All of them risked their whole careers - and for most, taking that risk ended their mainstream careers - because they were too intellectually honest to make these discoveries and then ignore them. I have begun to speak in churches because some ministers who discover The Fun of Dying are interested in its insights about the teachings of Jesus, and after these sermons and workshops many attendees will thank me for my courage in speaking out. Beside those genuine hero researchers who risked their whole careers for the truth, I don't feel brave. Instead, increasingly, I feel frustrated.

    Our erroneous beliefs about death are the central evil of human existence. Let me count a few of the ways!

    1) Fear of death is the base fear. When you realize the truth - that life is eternal - you find, amazingly, that you no longer fear anything.

    2) Grief is the core human pain. I hear from so many of the bereaved - spouses, parents, and even adult children. There is no pain like the loss of a young child. And the fact that being widowed and losing aged parents is just a natural part of living does not lessen by one whit the terrible pain that these events bring to many of us. When everyone knows for certain that those we have lost are gone from our sight just temporarily, and meanwhile they are safe and happy, just think how much suffering that will ease for so many!

    3) People will live very differently when they know that death won't get them off the hook. If you like to imagine world-changing events, imagine that moment when everyone first realizes that we have no secrets and the way we learn our life-lessons now is going to affect our happiness forevermore. I know that it has shaped me up, big-time!

    Curing cancer is fine, but its impact on human existence is a feather beside curing the fear of death. A quantum computer will be a great achievement, but it will count not at all beside a quantum alleviation of all human grief. And sticking flowers into the barrels of guns is only a temporary cure for wars, while helping those who see some personal gain in wars to realize that stealing from and conquering others will wreck their own eternal lives is the best - and perhaps the only! - way for us to achieve perpetual world peace.

    All that matters is the truth. Jesus says, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (JN 8:31-32) In this, as in so much else, Jesus turns out to be exactly right: when we all know the truth about death, we will be free indeed! And for mainstream scientists, who have the ability to bring us that new dawn more quickly, to continue to stonewall and delay and refuse even to consider the afterlife evidence seems inexcusable to me.

    I am sorry to be bummed this morning, dear friends. To quote a line from a poem that my 91-year-old mother used to love when I was a child, "I'll lie me down and bleed awhile, and then I'll up and fight again." And I will. We all will! If you are reading this, then you care enough about healing the suffering all around you to begin to make this your fight, too!
  14. When you challenge the established beliefs of any monopoly - like religious faith or the scientific community - you are bound to meet resistance - and even animosity. Thanatophobia is prevalent in all walks of life - and is influenced by many factors. You tread on sensitive ground...

    The reason you are my spiritual champion of the afterlife is that your work speaks to "evidence of the ages" - and challenges mainstream religious beliefs, and established scientific falsities. Similar to my passion to make connections - you use multiple sources from throughout history to paint a comprehensive portrait. To me this is the best chance (or approach) to the path of truth - as opposed to following one line of established thought.

    When I realized you are even willing to engage in earnest discussion with us lowly "laypersons" through this forum, I was most impressed.

    Your continued perseverance and determination in support of seeking the answers - specifically in the face of opposition (or "jackasses" as I sometimes refer to them), is commendable.

    I can easily see how frustrating it must be to try to reach out to closed minds. Like you mentioned - to not even consider evidence or at least engage in debate - is beyond comprehension. I often find that I must withdraw from adversarial skepticism/combative arguments in order to remain positive and keep the "purity of my thoughts" from being tainted by profound negativity. (to me some people at times seem literally insane over their cherished beliefs)

    I will be able to more fully engage in all deeper discussions when I have finished your book. I am currently splitting time between 8 various publications - 2 of which are specifically for debate and discussion with a friend on areas completely unfamiliar to me. I just wish I had more free time to absorb knowledge - or at least at a faster pace.

    Back soon!

    Warmest regards,
  15. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Pescado, you always make me smile! Engaging with wonderful minds like yours which are open enough to visit this forum, and curious enough to persistently search, is the whole reason why any of us do this work. It is hand-to-hand intellectual combat now, my friend. There seems to be no way to break the closed belief-systems of science and religions, so we are going to have to go around both of them and win this fight for the future of humankind by freeing one mind at a time. It will be harder without the help of our most trusted institutions, and it wastes time while people continue to suffer unnecessarily; but I cheerfully remind myself that time is an illusion, and anyway we are not in control. We are foot-soldiers. Ascended beings have been saying that there is a plan for elevating human awareness to the next level in this century, and if that is true then it is our great joy to have a small role to play.

    Each of us has something useful to do! Everyone who has been moved to visit this forum is likely being prompted by spirit-guides to learn more about what is really going on, and to prepare for the glorious work of helping to elevate human understanding. I can assure you that no matter how much effort you devote to trying to understand the greater reality, you never will reach the end of what you can learn but you never will be in the least disappointed; and for the rest of this earth-life you will be having more and more fun!
  16. Of course my constant references to SRI research is due to the fact that this is the single largest body of scientific work to refer skeptics to. With this in mind I lump many areas of research into the "PSI" phenomenon category. The SRI research speaks to the language of science. I use this information to support the more spiritual and/or instinctual knowledge.

    While secondary to this main thread - a very interesting parallel to your work - something that made a profound connection for me was this quote;

    "Most of the remote viewers at SRI and Fort Meade became quite spiritually oriented, and many experienced visions of luminous spiritual guides, other civilizations, other dimensions, other worlds, UFOs and aliens, deep empathy with suffering humans and animals, and so on."

    Everything you speak of and reference in your work (that I have seen so far) have been observed and documented by others - in the CIA program. Patterns of this magnitude are by no means coincidental!

    Very exciting!
  17. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Of course it's not coincidental, and of course it's very exciting ;-)! I wish more people knew that. The most exciting thing for me in doing this work for all these decades hasn't been proving that death is an illusion because that turns out to be so easy. I had proven it to my own (highly skeptical) satisfaction by about the year 1990. But by then I was completely in love with learning the truth! What makes this research so amazingly addictive is the way it keeps looping back on itself, the constant new connections that you keep finding to already long-known information, and just the fact that once you have crammed your mind with enough basic information you begin to see ever more profoundly that IT IS ALL THE SAME CONSISTENT REALITY. Remote-viewing, UFOs and aliens, spirit guides, the afterlife levels, and all the rest: it is all part of the same entirely consistent and profoundly simple but really amazingly gigantic reality. There are a few core truths, and once you get those, it all starts to make complete sense. You get to the point where you can generally predict where your current research threads are going, simply by applying these truths. I'm not sure that I can articulate here and now the truths that I have so far learned - and it's likely that there are others that I haven't yet found - but I will try to summarize what I know:

    1) The only reality is Mind. Mind is non-material spiritual energy, without size or location, highly emotional by nature and therefore apparently self-aware. All the minds that exist are part of Mind, almost certainly including animal minds and the minds of all other beings in the universe, and possibly including everything living. Perhaps even including every atom of matter which seems to us to be not-living. The fact that all minds are tightly connected means that every psi-based phenomenon, from remote-viewing through communicating with the dead, should be entirely easy and natural. The only reason why we usually can't do these things is that we believe they are impossible.

    2) Matter, energy, time and space are all illusions created by Mind. Our own minds, being part of Mind, are amazingly creative as well. There is a great body of evidence building that we are constantly affecting our realities, for good or ill, simply by what we think. It seems that the main reason why we can't do Yoda-like mind-control of other minds and even levitate objects is that we believe such things are impossible.

    3) The Newtonian laws of physics are part of this illusory material universe, but quantum physics is a glimpse of the physics of the greater reality. I don't know whether it literally is the physics of most of reality, or whether it is a kind of universal plug which unites two otherwise incompatible physics(es), but it appears to be more closely related to whatever is the physics of non-material reality than it is to Newtonian macro-physics. Physicists have spent the past hundred years trying to find a Theory of Everything which will unite both kinds of physics, but there is no reason to suspect they will find one. I have the sense that physicists are hungry for a TOE so they can integrate quantum physics into Newtonian physics, and thereby tame it. In reality, though, it is quantum physics that is the norm, while macro-physics is the local oddity.

    4) All of Mind is evolving toward ever more perfect universal love and forgiveness. What a great joke that is on us! We cower here in terror, assuming that nature is "red in tooth and claw" and that all those aliens in their UFOs are going to see us as just what's for lunch, when in fact all the evidence from beyond this planet suggests that the more advanced a civilization is, the more gentle and loving it becomes. We on earth are still as primitive as cave men, no matter how much fancy science we learn to do!

    - There may be more basic truths on which I am blanking, but these four should be a good start. Most people have a lot of trouble really fixing these principles in mind - especially, for some reason, the fact that time is illusory and the fact that there is no such thing as objective size. But I have found that once you get these principles - once you REALLY get them - they become fixed in your mind forevermore. And from then on, they shape the way you look at everything. I am the proverbial one-trick pony - I'm interested just in death and in the period soon after death - but I find that now that I know these principles and they are shaping what I see, every other odd thing that I come across immediately makes consistent sense to me!
  18. Ugh. I wrote a lengthy reply, only to realize that it did not post correctly. I normally work out of a word doc specifically to avoid this.

    Needless to say, due to my verbose nature - I lost quite a bit of text. lol

    I will try again later!
  19. Not that my personal opinion carries any “official” weight; but I concur - I am seeing patterns, repetition from varying sources and cultures, cross-referenced, verifiable data, similarities, etc., etc. Measurable and observable occurrences. I guess for some reason I had initially never considered all phenomenon as related – afterlife levels, UFO’s spirit guides, etc – until I consistently saw them repeatedly referenced together in research and documentation.

    To me this speaks to the discoveries in quantum connectedness – the fabric of communication that seems to bind even subatomic particles and individual cells together in some kind of interconnected “framework” or “web”. Everything is made of energy – at the atomic level we can observe the universe is liquid and fluid – with nothing made of true “solid” mass. Everything is in motion… and somehow, scientific evidence increasingly shows that even at the lowest levels, there is a communication or “rudimentary awareness” present, in all things.

    To me this relates directly to the mysteries of consciousness – what is “real” and what is manufactured by the mind? The most profound thinkers through history grappled with this one. I think this is the single hardest concept to grasp completely. It is a mind boggler. Of course there are many great books on this subject – but several that stand out to me as forward thinking and thought provoking are, “Quantum Enigma: Physics Encounters Consciousness” by Physicist Bruce Rosenblum Ph.D. and Fred Kuttner Ph.D., and the controversial views on “retrocausality” by Senior Scientist Dean Radin in “Entangled Minds: Extrasensory Experiences in a Quantum Reality”. These are just the ones I am familiar with.
    There is an excellent group - the ASSC (Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness) whose goal is to further the field of research in academia, coordinate conferences, publish findings, etc. I could easily spend a lifetime studying this topic alone.
    Additionally - I am familiar with the New Thought beliefs of the "laws of attraction" - as well as "The Secret". While I do not subscribe to the more selfish or material aspects of this line of thinking -- I have always believed in self-healing, and have seen statistical data on placebo effects -- all of which speak to the minds ability to manipulate our surroundings. (and of course these are just small examples from an untrained mind)

    The most brilliant minds of our time have concluded that TOE is dead. The most common argument against TOE is Kurt Gödel's incompleteness theorems – even Stephen Hawking, who as a former proponent of TOE, predicted “an end to physics” has since retracted his stance. (referencing Gödel’s theorems in his reasoning)
    That being said, I still feel quantum physics to be a blunt tool based on our limitations, and the fact that many areas cannot yet be quantified within the known scientific context. With more acceptance will come more funding – and with more funding, more discoveries which will allow new tools and technologies in this quest. Picture a new breed of Physicist/Scientist/Philosopher/Researcher – one in touch with PSI abilities and spiritual aspects of the human brain, as well as the future arsenal of technology and intellect – the possibilities! We are making more progress toward standardizing this knowledge and creating a common vocabulary than ever before.

    I agree! Lol - I often see us similar to the ape-like men in the movie 2001 when they encountered the obelisk – yeah, we beat the ground with sticks and shriek excitedly when we make a new discovery – but do we yet truly understand life’s mysteries in a coherent sense? We have fancy sticks – electronic even! They have flashing lights and make beeping sounds – the metaphor being that we are so impressed with our own limited technology, that we are beginning to again think we have all the answers… we must remember, history shows that around 1900 many scientists declared that they knew all there was to know!
    I live in an area with many former hippies and flower children. I was raised Protestant and to understand the Christian principles of generosity, love and forgiveness. I was born into the world with empathy and respect for all life. This may sound “hippy-ish” or like a “love-child”, but I truly believe that love is indeed the strongest power. This is my firm belief.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
  20. Wonderful clarification - I am with you on love being the strongest power.
  21. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Pescado's post above is extraordinary - I believe the evidence agrees with everything he says, and I cannot improve on any of it. I wonder whether it should be promoted to a blog post, or perhaps an article...? Pescado, would you mind seeing it given added exposure?

    I should add, though, that Barb's post is also wonderfully on point, and it is that to which I would like to speak now. We all grew up glibly saying, God is love," without realizing how true that was. I know how naive and corny this sounds in our so vastly cynical 21st-century world, but in fact all the evidence overwhelmingly indicates that the pure and ecstatic emotion that we think of as perfect love is in fact the strongest power in the universe.

    What modern religions refer to as God appears from the evidence to be a highly emotional energy of infinite creative power, but without size or form. And it is all that exists. Everything else that we think of as real is the illusory product of that core creative energy. We here generally use the term Mind, rather than God, since the name God brings to mind a human-like deity. Mind is not human, it has no human form, and it has no human weaknesses. Our minds, wonderfully, are part of Mind - we never began, and we will never end - but while we also are highly emotional, we can experience a range of emotions. It appears from the evidence that Mind has no emotional range, but instead it is a boundless, joyous love so intense that we cannot even imagine it. Like a young mother's love for her only child; like an old grandpa's love for the generations around his table; like the most intense and pure and perfect moment of love that you have ever enjoyed in your life: that is just the dimmest taste of the love that is the core of our reality.

    Really internalizing this fact is important. When you know at the core of your being that you are loved this way, and that nothing you do can ever diminish that love for you, then everything in your life will change! (Yes, Cromulent, eternal Mind loves even you, no matter how you try to reason it away ;-)!) Indeed, it doesn't seem to matter whether you believe that Mind created the universe and the afterlife levels and keeps them going; it doesn't seem to matter whether you rant aloud your hatred for your own eternal Source. God is love. God is nothing but love. And according to the evidence, so will we all become. Smile as you go to sleep tonight, dear friends! You are safe forever in those eternal arms.
  22. I was off on a wild technical research tangent, wrapping up a large project, and finally dealing with a family medical emergency -- am now trying to catch back up to the threads... good stuff!
  23. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Welcome back, dear friend - you have been missed!!
  24. Getting back to the original topic, what is your take on the prospects of using genetic engineering (or perhaps some sort of surgical/chemical process) to give a non-human animal something approaching human-like intelligence? Would an existing animal altered in this fashion become "ensouled" as soon as he crossed that threshold? Would it only be possible to do this using genetic engineering, giving the higher-ups enough warning to find a soul for this "person?" Or is the entire process predestined to fail due to the nature of intellect and the soul?
  25. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Hi OldManRobot! I always hope that other people will jump in and answer questions like yours - and if anyone else has thoughts on this, please by all means let us hear them! For now, I will tell you what I think, which is... I am not really sure.

    One of the great unanswered questions in all the afterlife literature is whether there is a difference in kind between human mind-energy and animal (or even plant!) mind-energy. There certainly is a difference of degree. Human beings are much more intellectually advanced. But I have seen lots of tantalizing evidence that animals have a great deal more intelligence, both intellectually and emotionally, than we imagine; and that animal mind-energy may be advancing toward human mind-energy in some way that we cannot fathom. And since there is lots of evidence that the mind-energy in living plant cells is able to receive communications from our minds, I have begun to consider the possibility that life=mind-energy, and that not only are animal minds advancing, but that literally all of life is advancing toward spiritual perfection. I have no idea if this is true - I just have seen evidence which makes less sense if it is not true.

    I believe that soul=mind. There is no evidence that I have seen that we are two-parters, each of us with a spiritual component that is separate from our minds. So therefore I think it is theoretically possible that if an animal were able to advance its intelligence sufficiently (by whatever mechanism - doesn't matter), then that animal would become at least eligible for human-style advancement at some point, without the added need for a "soul-infusion." Just a hypothesis, mind you!

Share This Page