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a few thoughts

Discussion in 'Spiritual Growth & Development' started by mac, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    last question first - yes! But what does that actually mean? True love is unconditional and in the etheric realms it can be found. But does it mean that every discarnate loves every other discarnate and incarnate equally and unconditionally? Or are we and they progressing slowly, steadily towards that state? What do you think?

    You said: "The big question that I have, and something that is at odds with my worldview, is that if we are evolving spiritually through all our lives and afterlife levels, does that mean that we were originally created less-than-perfect beings that need lessons on how to be loving, kind, thoughtful of others? Or are we perfect beings choosing to experience imperfection? If so, is this why our imperfect world is referred to as a illusion? If so, and we experience some imperfection or still need some spiritual growth in the afterlife realms or through reincarnation, are those afterlife realms also a part of the illusion? Is then our only true reality, our original state of existence, a realm where we are all one, duality and hierarchy do not exist? Is this the highest realm that you speak of that we cannot even imagine?"

    We're battling with semantics here. You ask were "...we originally created less-than-perfect......" whereas a different perspective would show that we weren't created at all and less-than-perfect has no relevance because perfection isn't our goal. Many religions and teachings are to blame for pushing those lines! What's been written purporting to come from God isn't my scene - I prefer spiritually-evolved teacher's ideas to those written by men.

    However we mash the words, we're here to experience what can't be experienced elsewhere in the etheric. How one thinks about that is up to the individual and down to their personal level of spiritual understanding and progression. All the discussions about an illusory world, duality etc. are fun as a mind-challenge but for me they relate little to the simple realities of life, death, life beyond-death and constant if gradual spiritual progression.

    But we all go our own way and follow our own destinies along whatever roads we choose. The destination always remains the same.
  2. Thanks for sharing the wonderful stuff Mac. I also agree with you all that this thread should be a sticky.
  3. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Successfully stickied!! Thank you, dear Mac!!
  4. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    always my pleasure.... :) I was surprised and heartened at how those thoughts appealed to our members.

    It's maybe illuminating to say that I hadn't even thought of posting any such thing that evening and I just happened to stumble on them in my writings as I was looking for something else.

    How lucky that was, eh? ;) :D
  5. This is all very interesting, but I agree with Carol about a more specific name for this thread. Are these all points that are generally agreed upon by members of this forum, as summarized by Mac? Thanks for this interesting thread, Mac.
  6. Let me thank you, first off, for your response. Whether we agree on all the details or not, I always enjoy reading your views.

    I tend to think that we all long to go back Home to our original state of existence, which is as perfect beings in a perfect world filled with Harmony. I agree with you that it seems to be a slow steady progression. Though a part of me believes that one 'day' we'll simply wake up and find that all of this, including all the afterlife levels, is nothing more than a child's silly game of make believe.

    And here's the biggest of all questions: How much of a role do our beliefs have in creating our afterlife and even this life? To answer my own question I'll quote one very, very wise visionary: "As you believe, it shall be done to you. It shall be done to you according to your faith."

    With Lovingkindness (metta),
  7. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    thanks, vic I'm well aware that neither you nor most others will agree with my ideas but I'm heartened that you enjoy hearing them.

    For myself 'home' is always where we transiently are. Currently home is here because we are presently incarnate - physical beings. After we pass over home will be wherever we end up in the etheric for as long as we spend there as we journey along. Further down the line we'll progress to other dimensions - each, in turn, will temporarily be home. But I get your point about the 'home' in your mind's eye. Using your "original state of existence" thought, for me that's merging with the source from which we originally emerged at some unfathomable 'point of time'. In doing that we are not beings at all because we cease to be 'beings' in the sense of individual anything.

    I strongly disagree with the thought we may find all previous existences were little more than make believe. If the notion of there being a creator-energy means anything at all, and if the notion of returning to something we once used to be has any legs, then I see no logic in our having experienced the individuation we are experiencing if it's little different from make believe.

    Our individual concepts of the source, the creator, God or whatever name one chooses are likely to be governed by our individual spiritual progress on the journey 'back home' - and what ideas we hold about that journey. As each individual's journey is likely to be very different from any other individual's journey, many/most of us will have a different perspective of that 'home' and what it means. It doesn't mean that one individual's right and another is wrong, only that we may see the same thing but describe it differently because of our differing perspectives.

    On your "biggest of all question" I don't have any personal difficulty. For some their beliefs greatly shape both this current world and the one which follows. It's easy to find oneself shaking one's head in dismay and disbelief at how rigid, how entrenched, how myopic are the beliefs, views and opinions held by some individuals. Some will create in this world the framework of their next one and have their beliefs confirmed about the afterlife when they find what they always believed - a world exactly similar to the one they created by their thoughts, ideas, notions and superstitions.

    Those who did not have rigid ideas will pass over without entrenched expectations and find something different to the group above. Those who had some idea what to expect but knew they would find much variation and have much to learn will find something else.

    The visionary's words fail when they say "As you believe it shall be done to you." because none of it is done to anyone - what's 'done' is done by those who choose it. Perhaps that visionary didn't see so much after all?
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  8. Mac, thank-you again for your reply. We are on the same page, at least 95%, anyway. I am seeing more and more that we all have our unique journeys on this earthly realm, and our unique worldviews. It's nice to be able to come to a forum like this and share them. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have surely been spiritually enriched from interacting on this forum. I certainly appreciate your contribution, as I do the contributions of most forum members.

    I promised myself that I would not read any more channeled books since I'm of the opinion that the spiritual beings who give the information are often times just as confused as we are. But I did order one of Silver Birch's books. Since my expectations of channeled books are quite low, hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.

    With Lovingkindness (metta),
  9. I'm not sure that I understand what you mean here. When I use this quote I tend to mean that on this earth we can achieve anything we believe we can achieve. Positive thinking people project (and possibly create or co-create with their spiritual companions) a positive world for themselves, and set possibly themselves up for a more positive afterlife realm. So, in my worldview, if I go around wearing rose colored glasses and sticking my head in the sand when confronted with negativity, I naively believe that I am creating a better world, and a better afterlife for myself. I have no solid data to prove this of course. But I 'believe' that it works for me, so I continue with it.

    With Lovingkindness (metta),
  10. Celera

    Celera Active Member

    Perhaps. But I'm personally more inclined to think that like other great teachers and visionaries, he worked within a specific context and presented a message suited for a specific people at a specific time. Had he said, "there really is no God, there is an eternal mind in which we all participate through our sub-conscious" he would have been neither believed nor even understood.
  11. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    Well, guys, how embarrassing this all is! :(

    Quite plainly I've inadvertently plagiarized a piece from Victor Zammit's website. I deeply apologize both to him, to members of this website and all others offended by what I've done.

    As I mentioned to Roberta, I had no intention of posting this piece when I was leafing through some of my own writing but when I saw it I thought it seemed appropriate for the website. I could not remember writing it in the first place all and that's now perfectly understandable - I didn't! Mea culpa but I hadn't intended to deceive. :rolleyes: I'm having to guess that I admired what was written in the original but modified it to be more inclusive and simpler, just as a technical exercise for myself. What I didn't do, though, is to make a note about where it came from. I must, and I will, be much more careful in future.

    To repeat myself, I apologize to everyone affected and I'm deeply embarrassed that the piece was never mine to post.

    Roberta will you please remove the whole original thread to avoid offense and further embarrassment?
  12. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    Dear Mac, why don't you just edit your post to say that these are some wonderful thoughts from Mr. Zammit? I don't for a moment think that you meant to do anything dishonorable!
  13. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    If you're OK with leaving this thread untouched, Roberta, then that's OK with me as I've explained what happened and apologized publicly to VZ and to our members.

    I'm not now able to edit my original posting as too much time has elapsed and the 'Edit' button has gone but the original ideas may be found on Victor Zammit's website http://victorzammit.com/book/4thedition/chapter29.html

    I'm so sorry I made such a cock-up.
  14. RobertaGrimes

    RobertaGrimes Administrator

    I've just posted a first line for your original post, giving Mr. Zammit credit - if that works for you, let's leave it. Otherwise, of course, I'll take down the thread. I get his emails, too - he is extraordinary!!
  15. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    thanks, Roberta

    I'm OK with that. :)
  16. ravensgate

    ravensgate Active Member

    That's what I thought and posted, that as long as credit is given, I don't see any problems.
    Thanks, Roberta, thank you Mr. Zammit, and thank you, Mac.
  17. Hey, you can't spell dishonorable without honorable.
  18. I agree!!!
  19. pleiades

    pleiades Member

    I can certainly empathize with your situation, Mac. As an artist, I've taken many notes throughout the years and sometimes, in review, I come across a visual reference I jotted down which I swear was my original idea, but of course, it turns out to be da vinci, dangnabit. I have read many of your posts and you're a very wise and interesting man. Thanks again for this thread.
  20. mac

    mac senior member Staff Member

    thanks for your words

    I screwed up by not naming the great piece VZ wrote which I modified for myself as a technical exercise. It was never meant to leave my computer but foolishly I kept it with other pieces that I know I have written!

    I'm an idiot for not taking care in the first instance but I'm only human - I make mistakes. :(

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