My reincarnation worries...if it exists

[chelle21689]

My dad is Buddhist and my mom is Catholic. I was raised catholic but after a while I started to become agnostic after much thinking about religion. After researching many things I've concluded that consciouness does exist after we die, we meet loved ones, etc. But then I came across many believers in reincarnation and it makes sense to me because I can't imagine an infinite heaven with those I love. Let me tell you one thing though, even though reincarnation does make most sense to me I don't want to believe in it. I absolutely hate the idea of starting all over again, forgetting my good memories, forgetting my loved ones, and those relationships gone. I love my life and everyone in it. I don't want it to change. Why can't we just some how spend eternity being happy and if I want to spend time with the ones I care about have that option?

I guess I am okay with the idea of reincarnation but I really don't want to start another life and I don't want the possibility of my dad becoming my husband in a next life O.o I don't care what you say I think that's so weird.

Another thing I'm confused with is some people say we reincarnate as groups with loved ones. Our loved ones wait for us to reincarnate whenever we're ready. That doesn't make sense to me because it'd be an endless cycle. For example my great grandma won't reincarnate without my grandma. My grandma won't reincarnate without my mother, my mother won't reincarnate without me, but I don't want to reincarnate without my child, etc. etc. It just doesn't make sense to me!


If anyone that is not into organized religion but doesn't believe in reincarnation feel free to enlighten me on what you believe and how eternity is possible. I do believe that time may not exist in our world.

[Roberta Grimes]

My dad is Buddhist and my mom is Catholic. I was raised catholic but after a while I started to become agnostic after much thinking about religion. After researching many things I've concluded that consciouness does exist after we die, we meet loved ones, etc. But then I came across many believers in reincarnation and it makes sense to me because I can't imagine an infinite heaven with those I love. Let me tell you one thing though, even though reincarnation does make most sense to me I don't want to believe in it. I absolutely hate the idea of starting all over again, forgetting my good memories, forgetting my loved ones, and those relationships gone. I love my life and everyone in it. I don't want it to change. Why can't we just some how spend eternity being happy and if I want to spend time with the ones I care about have that option?

I guess I am okay with the idea of reincarnation but I really don't want to start another life and I don't want the possibility of my dad becoming my husband in a next life O.o I don't care what you say I think that's so weird.

Another thing I'm confused with is some people say we reincarnate as groups with loved ones. Our loved ones wait for us to reincarnate whenever we're ready. That doesn't make sense to me because it'd be an endless cycle. For example my great grandma won't reincarnate without my grandma. My grandma won't reincarnate without my mother, my mother won't reincarnate without me, but I don't want to reincarnate without my child, etc. etc. It just doesn't make sense to me!


If anyone that is not into organized religion but doesn't believe in reincarnation feel free to enlighten me on what you believe and how eternity is possible. I do believe that time may not exist in our world.

A hearty welcome, dear Chelle! You have made some wonderful points and asked great questions - I have asked some of them myself along the way. Having been raised as a Christian, the whole concept of reincarnation was foreign to me when I began to research the afterlife; but yet as I read decades of communications from the dead and other afterlife-related evidence, I found the fact of reincarnation becoming increasingly irrefutable. Reincarnation is real. But what I view as the "good news" is that apparently it is very little like the eastern view of reincarnation! The following elements are true, based upon all the evidence:

1) Time is not objectively real. Your final sentence is a big one, dear friend! And because time is an illusion, there is evidence that what we see as linear time actually is not linear at all, and... all our lives are (in some way that we cannot fathom) happening at once. One advanced being suggested that we view reincarnation more as a bucket out of which each lifetime is dipped and back into which each lifetime is poured. That is more or less how I have come to see it.

2) We reincarnate in order to learn spiritual lessons. It would be impossible to learn enough in one lifetime. But if we live many lives then we can experience being both genders, being both strong and weak, being rich and being poor, being a slave and being a king, and so on. We have amnesia for our other lives while we are in bodies (although that amnesia is not always perfect), but once we are back in the Summerland we will remember some of our other lives; and we will have the opportunity to research them all.

3) We do tend to reincarnate in soul-groups. We gather in the Summerland as a life is completed, and we plan the next one together. And yes, we do tend to take different roles each time! If it creeps you out to think of your dad being your husband in another life, then how do you feel about his being your wife ;-)?

4) The whole group of souls is not always in bodies together. Some will be spirit guides the next time around (a role in which apparently a lot can be learned), while others might simply opt out altogether. I used to wonder, too, about the endless chain of generations and how you could break it into groups, but I gather that the groups are so loose and so frequently mix with others not in the group (or in a wider group-of-groups) that this is not an issue. I understand how intensely you love your mother, and she loves hers, but please remember that once you are out of this body you will see things very differently - you won't love your mother less, but you will see your relationship with her as part of an extraordinary eternal whole relationship of love with so many others, too.

5) Our past and future lifetimes are affecting this one. Past-life regression therapy can be used to cure phobias and chronic illnesses in this lifetime, and sometimes when the cause cannot be found in the "past" a therapist will progress the patient and find the cause (and therefore also the cure) of some problem in the "future." Read Brian Weiss's Same Soul, Many Bodies - it will blow your mind.

I hope this helps, dear Chelle! I'm delighted that you have joined our family!!

[chelle21689]

Thank you so much for your response. I was afraid I will not have that. I posted this question on a very interesting site with forums about after life, death, conspiracy, etc. but they were no help and did not answer any of my question. They just merely saw my question title and got excited and answered it without reading the details, so thank you so much for addressing each question.

Haha, that is very comforting idea if my partner became my wife and I was a wife...or if he was a woman and I were a man but I did read we tend to prefer a gender. Do you have any theories on deceased spouses and current spouses and then what happens with the reincarnation "soul group"? I'd like to believe that maybe there is one energy we tend to attach to more in a romantic sense than the other or maybe in each life time the ones right for me just swaps if our energies truly gravitate toward each other, etc Not sure what to think of right there.

So you're saying that if we can choose to swap a role say he can become my wife and I become his husband? If so, why would anyone choose to live a life disabled, poor, tortured, or worse be a murder/pedophile?

Also, I think some believe we keep reincarnating until we reach enlightenment, what do you think of that?

I read some where it tried to explain the reincarnation process like a play. It was very interesting. Here it is if you're interested
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/spiritu...reincarnation/


I am a firm believer something happens. Reincarnation or journey to another dimension, purpose, or whatever is still not concrete for me. It's just possibilities. I'm still agnostic I guess but very open to the idea.

[vic smyth]

I read some where it tried to explain the reincarnation process like a play. It was very interesting. Here it is if you're interested
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/spiritu...reincarnation/

I read the link, thank-you for posting it. It's an excellent explanation! I like it so much I'm considering plagiarizing it (just kidding).


With Lovingkindness (metta),
vic

[mac]

A hearty welcome, dear Chelle! You have made some wonderful points and asked great questions - I have asked some of them myself along the way. Having been raised as a Christian, the whole concept of reincarnation was foreign to me when I began to research the afterlife; but yet as I read decades of communications from the dead and other afterlife-related evidence, I found the fact of reincarnation becoming increasingly irrefutable. Reincarnation is real. But what I view as the "good news" is that apparently it is very little like the eastern view of reincarnation! The following elements are true, based upon all the evidence:

1) Time is not objectively real. Your final sentence is a big one, dear friend! And because time is an illusion, there is evidence that what we see as linear time actually is not linear at all, and... all our lives are (in some way that we cannot fathom) happening at once. One advanced being suggested that we view reincarnation more as a bucket out of which each lifetime is dipped and back into which each lifetime is poured. That is more or less how I have come to see it.

2) We reincarnate in order to learn spiritual lessons. It would be impossible to learn enough in one lifetime. But if we live many lives then we can experience being both genders, being both strong and weak, being rich and being poor, being a slave and being a king, and so on. We have amnesia for our other lives while we are in bodies (although that amnesia is not always perfect), but once we are back in the Summerland we will remember some of our other lives; and we will have the opportunity to research them all.

3) We do tend to reincarnate in soul-groups. We gather in the Summerland as a life is completed, and we plan the next one together. And yes, we do tend to take different roles each time! If it creeps you out to think of your dad being your husband in another life, then how do you feel about his being your wife ;-)?

4) The whole group of souls is not always in bodies together. Some will be spirit guides the next time around (a role in which apparently a lot can be learned), while others might simply opt out altogether. I used to wonder, too, about the endless chain of generations and how you could break it into groups, but I gather that the groups are so loose and so frequently mix with others not in the group (or in a wider group-of-groups) that this is not an issue. I understand how intensely you love your mother, and she loves hers, but please remember that once you are out of this body you will see things very differently - you won't love your mother less, but you will see your relationship with her as part of an extraordinary eternal whole relationship of love with so many others, too.

5) Our past and future lifetimes are affecting this one. Past-life regression therapy can be used to cure phobias and chronic illnesses in this lifetime, and sometimes when the cause cannot be found in the "past" a therapist will progress the patient and find the cause (and therefore also the cure) of some problem in the "future." Read Brian Weiss's Same Soul, Many Bodies - it will blow your mind.

I hope this helps, dear Chelle! I'm delighted that you have joined our family!!

As counterpoise to the ideas above, it's not the case that every thinking person buys into all, or any of, the details, even if they accept the basic concepts.

[mac]

Thank you so much for your response. I was afraid I will not have that. I posted this question on a very interesting site with forums about after life, death, conspiracy...............tion or journey to another dimension, purpose, or whatever is still not concrete for me. It's just possibilities. I'm still agnostic I guess but very open to the idea.

Having responded to Roberta's earlier posting I'll barge in here, if I may? On this website you'll find at least one individual who doesn't get "...excited and answered it without reading the details." seriatim, then....

quote: "that is very comforting idea if my partner became my wife and I was a wife...or if he was a woman and I were a man but I did read we tend to prefer a gender. Do you have any theories on deceased spouses and current spouses and then what happens with the reincarnation "soul group"? I'd like to believe that maybe there is one energy we tend to attach to more in a romantic sense than the other or maybe in each life time the ones right for me just swaps if our energies truly gravitate toward each other, etc Not sure what to think of right there."

The soul-group/soul-cell issue is one where much misunderstanding and - dare I say it - much romancing is seen. Let's start at the beginning. Soul group/cells are groups consisting of varying numbers of individual discarnates who 'clump together' (not a very elegant term I accept!) on individual journeys of discovery.

The reason they clump together is most simply described as because of their spiritual attraction for one another - that saves getting side-tracked. Romance, as we understand it, may or may not be a feature of soul-group member attraction. But love is always an attraction even though it may not manifest in emotional or sexual attraction (by sexual read straight, gay, lesbian, bi-sexuality, what-have-you).

Attractions between members - not necessarily just two members of course - may range from powerful thru gentle but love is always the basis. That's not the emotional, physical love we experience here in the physical....

You mention spouses, deceased or otherwise... The previous ideas cover all situations. Spousal attraction may be deep and meaningful, may last many lifetimes or just one, but is always just part of the spectrum of experiences.

quote: "So you're saying that if we can choose to swap a role say he can become my wife and I become his husband? If so, why would anyone choose to live a life disabled, poor, tortured, or worse be a murder/pedophile?" Big subject getting into why or even if we made particular choices such as the last few you've mentioned. Many discussions and disagreements in the past on those issues. You ask about role-swapping and that's all part of the potential soul-group activity. Doesn't mean everyone will do it or would want to do it.... They can if they want to, if they consider it important to their mutual spiritual progression. Ponder the following though.

Soul group members experience as individuals some of an infinite range of experiences available in life - we all do. Is repeated reincarnation to allow us to experience all of life's experiences? If so we'd need a near-eternity of such experiences, unique as they are. Do we need to experience everything that can be experienced? Logic (and guidance) tells me no. It's not necessary for us to take from our incarnate existence(s) every possible learning outcome. Do we need lots of lifetimes? Well that's where soul-group membership really scores.

Each group member takes back to her/his particular group a number of experiences which, because of the soul-cell affinities, each member can benefit from. Put simply we each learn from the experiences of the other members of our soul-cell. We share a bond of love and each willingly gives and receives. In such ways we learn far more about discarnate life than we reasonably could totally in isolation. Hence our time as incarnates is less than otherwise it might be. No need for a seemingly endless succession of lives as humankind....

I think I've given you enough to think about there and will leave it at that.

[chelle21689]

Is there a particular religion that believes in what you had just explained to me? Buddhism, Hinduism, whatever? It's very interesting to hear different perspectives but even though with explanation I'm still confused and may always be. I think I am still agnostic and still think it is possible there may be nothing after we die which I still find more comforting than reincarnation lol.

With these "soul groups", do we ever part from that soul group to another "soul group" of who those we love? I mean for example if you love your friends but you also love your family but your family doesn't know crap about your friends or doesn't love them. I wanted to address the love thing you mentioned there may or may not be that type of thing when we are in that state. I don't see why it can't exist if it already does exist. I mean we can always love but in different ways.

Also, do we even remember any of the events that happened through out our life cycles after we die and go to "summerland"?

[mac]

Is there a particular religion that believes in what you had just explained to me? Buddhism, Hinduism, whatever? It's very interesting to hear different perspectives but even though with explanation I'm still confused and may always be. I think I am still agnostic and still think it is possible there may be nothing after we die which I still find more comforting than reincarnation lol.

With these "soul groups", do we ever part from that soul group to another "soul group" of who those we love? I mean for example if you love your friends but you also love your family but your family doesn't know crap about your friends or doesn't love them. I wanted to address the love thing you mentioned there may or may not be that type of thing when we are in that state. I don't see why it can't exist if it already does exist. I mean we can always love but in different ways.

Also, do we even remember any of the events that happened through out our life cycles after we die and go to "summerland"?

Slow down a little....

I don't know if there's a particular religion that teaches the ideas I laid down. I expect others may claim them for their own religion and that's OK as it doesn't much matter which religion teaches them or if no religion does.

You've asked a whole bunch of new questions but trying to answer those is like trying to teach an elementary school kid about advanced maths. I, or anyone else, could tell you any old stuff and you wouldn't know if it was b/s or the truth as you have no fundamental understanding on which to base your assessment.

Focusing on one issue - soul groups for example - when you don't even know for sure if you're agnostic would take you precisely where? Baby steps are always best I've found. Learn the basics and then try something a little more involved. It worked for me anyway.

In terms of the average Joe or Josephine's spiritual progress the issue of soul-group understanding is up there. I 'stumbled' on the notion after probably 20 years of studying other 'stuff' and doubt I could have properly appreciated its significance in my first few years.

[Birki]

Is there a particular religion that believes in what you had just explained to me? Buddhism, Hinduism, whatever? It's very interesting to hear different perspectives but even though with explanation I'm still confused and may always be. I think I am still agnostic and still think it is possible there may be nothing after we die which I still find more comforting than reincarnation lol.

With these "soul groups", do we ever part from that soul group to another "soul group" of who those we love? I mean for example if you love your friends but you also love your family but your family doesn't know crap about your friends or doesn't love them. I wanted to address the love thing you mentioned there may or may not be that type of thing when we are in that state. I don't see why it can't exist if it already does exist. I mean we can always love but in different ways.

Also, do we even remember any of the events that happened through out our life cycles after we die and go to "summerland"?

Chelle, every religion is man made. What Roberta reports is based on evidence she has gathered from years of research. If you have not already done so, I strongly encourage you to read Roberta's book The Fun of Dying. She presents the info in a clear, easy to digest manner. You can also go straight to some of her source material, there are study guides listed under "Resources" at http://www.funofdying.com/.

I can't tell if you are interested in religion or not. Religion is not necessary for spiritual development. But some people do like being part of a religion for a variety of reasons. There are some religions that align with the ideas Roberta has presented. I am most familiar with the New Though movement. Some specific "churches" or groups associated with this movement are Unity, Centers for Spiritual Living / Science of Mind / Religious Science, and Church of Divine Science.

A lot of ideas Roberta discusses also come from A Course in Miracles. It's pretty heavy in my opinion, and so far I have done better reading about ACIM from other sources rather than getting through the original material. It's a committment to work through it all.

Also, you say you are agnostic. I was too at one point. What I finally realized was that what I had been told God is really is not what God is at all. It is very difficult for humans to understand the true nature of God. But once I realized that I could have a new conception of God, free from my religious upbringing, I came to realize without at doubt that God IS, and all there is is God.

[Roberta Grimes]

Chelle, every religion is man made. What Roberta reports is based on evidence she has gathered from years of research. If you have not already done so, I strongly encourage you to read Roberta's book The Fun of Dying. She presents the info in a clear, easy to digest manner. You can also go straight to some of her source material, there are study guides listed under "Resources" at http://www.funofdying.com/.

I can't tell if you are interested in religion or not. Religion is not necessary for spiritual development. But some people do like being part of a religion for a variety of reasons. There are some religions that align with the ideas Roberta has presented. I am most familiar with the New Though movement. Some specific "churches" or groups associated with this movement are Unity, Centers for Spiritual Living / Science of Mind / Religious Science, and Church of Divine Science.

A lot of ideas Roberta discusses also come from A Course in Miracles. It's pretty heavy in my opinion, and so far I have done better reading about ACIM from other sources rather than getting through the original material. It's a committment to work through it all.

Also, you say you are agnostic. I was too at one point. What I finally realized was that what I had been told God is really is not what God is at all. It is very difficult for humans to understand the true nature of God. But once I realized that I could have a new conception of God, free from my religious upbringing, I came to realize without at doubt that God IS, and all there is is God.

Heh - dear Birki, I was about to post in this thread, but you beat me to it. And said it better than I could!