RudeAwakening

[RudeAwakening]

Oh heck, I just realized it sounds like I'm bashing all health care workers. Just a quick apology in case I gave that impression. I've dealt with enough of them to know that these are some of the most gentle and caring people around. I deeply respect and admire many that work in the industry and appreciate their sacrafice and efforts.

I just take extra offense to those that take the suffering of others lightly that I tend to rant about their poor behavior. Incompetence or apathy doesn't bother me nearly as much in any other profession.

[Fallen]

Its highly unecessary to medicate someone like that, I think even from a medical perspective. Its the medicalization of death, which I suspect, just brings more money into their pockets.

[Roberta Grimes]

Its highly unecessary to medicate someone like that, I think even from a medical perspective. Its the medicalization of death, which I suspect, just brings more money into their pockets.

The money motive may be a factor, dear Fallen, but having been through this with my parents and in-laws, I think a lot of it might be less about money than it is about not wanting nor having the time to give the dying lots of individual attention. You don't want to leave someone alone, frightened, and perhaps even in pain! So you give out happy-pills. You over-medicate people into oblivious comas. I know it sounds awful, but I did it myself so it is hard for me to judge. More than a decade ago, my much-beloved mother-in-law was nearing her end due to heart failure in a hospital, at the age of 94. She had always been afraid of death, and nothing I could say really comforted her - she was old-style Catholic, so this good woman who had lived her love for others through all her long life still was worried about her coming judgment. I stayed with her for as long as I could, but I had family to attend to. And she was dying, and I knew that once she died she would be fine, so... I asked them to help her sleep until I could get back the next day. She ended up comatose until she died, a week later. I felt a lot of guilt about that, but guilt is pointless - she has forgiven me, and I have forgiven myself. It isn't always about money, dear friend. Sometimes it is done out of misguided love.

[Fallen]

The money motive may be a factor, dear Fallen, but having been through this with my parents and in-laws, I think a lot of it might be less about money than it is about not wanting nor having the time to give the dying lots of individual attention. You don't want to leave someone alone, frightened, and perhaps even in pain! So you give out happy-pills. You over-medicate people into oblivious comas. I know it sounds awful, but I did it myself so it is hard for me to judge. More than a decade ago, my much-beloved mother-in-law was nearing her end due to heart failure in a hospital, at the age of 94. She had always been afraid of death, and nothing I could say really comforted her - she was old-style Catholic, so this good woman who had lived her love for others through all her long life still was worried about her coming judgment. I stayed with her for as long as I could, but I had family to attend to. And she was dying, and I knew that once she died she would be fine, so... I asked them to help her sleep until I could get back the next day. She ended up comatose until she died, a week later. I felt a lot of guilt about that, but guilt is pointless - she has forgiven me, and I have forgiven myself. It isn't always about money, dear friend. Sometimes it is done out of misguided love.

Well its a general response I have to our healthcare industry, which from my perspective has overdiagnosed, overpathologized, and overdrugged our society.

[RudeAwakening]

Well its a general response I have to our healthcare industry, which from my perspective has overdiagnosed, overpathologized, and overdrugged our society.

Hi Fallen and welcome to the forms.

I don't think anyone can argue with your statement. The cost of health care is also one of the things destroying this country. I don't even look anymore what part of it is GNP. Wrap up moral issues in there and we're just screwed. Your general response applies to many aspects of it that appear beyond our control, but that’s another discussion in itself.

Actually the pain management Roberta is talking about seems to have evolved for the better over the years. I can remember a doctor referring to my grandmother, 25 years ago, and having concerns about her developing an Addiction to her morphine. She wasn’t in the final stages, but close enough. I remember thinking that was crazy; she was clearly in considerable pain. What difference would it make if she developed an addiction before she died?

There are 1,000 ways to take hundreds of millions off the cost of medical care in this country while solving the general responses of many people to the way healthcare is handled. Unfortunately I believe Big Pharma is the biggest lobby in the world and the above scenario is never going to happen. Unless the public becomes educated in this area (another never going to happen) the mayhem will continue indefinitely. What’s going to stop it?

One area that will help the general public is a little work in the area of end of life care. I don’t know the stats on essentially terminal cancers that end up being treated aggressively at costs of well over a hundred thousand per year, but they are high. Some treatments can range in the 12K per month category for essentially no gain or very little and what value do we put on time? Anyway this is just I’m familiar with now, all sorts of end of life care out there needs to be evaluated.

I’m currently enrolled in - In Home Hospice. Good group of people. Nobody hassles’ you, your nurse come sees’ you once a week, unless you need to see her more. We, She and I, evaluate my medication weekly, “is it doing the job?” I decide how much morphine, Xanax, and codone, I need - the army of pain and anxiety medication at my disposal at this time - I take as much as I want, which is far more than I really need. I sleep a lot. Don’t let myself get too upset about anything. They give me a steroid that helps my appetite and I eat like a fool. I’m getting very fat for a terminal cancer patient. (most of it is water) Recall there is no chemotherapy in hospice or regular visits to an oncologist, although you could probably get that if you wanted. The cancer is eating the pudding and drinking the champagne, but I’m the one swallowing it. It’s not making me stronger, only happier.

I’m of the opinion that this is the way most stage 4 cancers should be dealt with until they are actually producing effective therapies that work against these diseases and stop putting people through all that horrible radiation and chemotherapy, that’s the real crime. They need their guinea pigs in all of this in order to produce the results they claim to be getting so don’t expect most doctors to suggest In Home Hospice. They don’t make any money off you if you spend 6 months in front of the TV eating toaster strudel.

This is not for everybody, get a physiology book and understand your own disease and what’s available to you in hospice. It doesn’t cost a dime, your insurance, if your lucky to have it will pay for everything. My drugs alone would cost thousands a month. (EDIT, they would cost me thousands a month, I'm sure they are pennies a pill to produce.)

You cannot steal these drugs for resale, not only will they catch you, they will catch you. You’re not doing it for the drugs as surprising as that may be for some. If you’ve got less than six months you qualify. Take a load off the system, show ‘em what they can do with their poisons, help change the way it’s done.

[Carol and Mikey]

RA,
I will be like you if I ever get cancer like this. Mikey has told me that many people prolong their suffering by doing anything they can to live longer when their "time" is inevitable. Mikey says this "extra suffering" is not "needed." Mikey does say life is not necessarily about "suffering." I feel there is fear of the "unknown" with the patient and the family which makes them really push the treatments. And of course it is so hard to "let go" of the individual. But you are really never letting go because the loving connection is ALWAYS there and you WILL see them again! Mikey says if people only truly understood how glorious the "transition" can be, they would not do this to themselves. This is where society could also benefit from this knowledge. But it is a slow process. I do think they are doing more with "living wills" where you can address this while you are well. I know mine is very direct about no artificial means, etc. I am DNR/DNI now. When it is my time, I am leaving. (My disco and 70's party will be going constantly until you all arrive. RA, you are in charge of the pre-party!)
Hope you are doing OK RA. Love and peace to you on this journey!
Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

[WWE LOVER]

My disco and 70's party will be going constantly until you all arrive. RA, you are in charge of the pre-party!
Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

That's a whole lotta Donna Summer to go around. But It's all good, along with some Blondie too.

Once that party is over, we be going to have an 80s party. We gonna play some Billy Joel, Billy Idol, VH, Whitesnake, The Cars, Journey, Michael Jackson, and a whole lot more. No cancer around, just some good suds and good tunes and no cats - the way Heaven should be.

[vic smyth]

Once that party is over, we be going to have an 80s party. We gonna play some Billy Joel, Billy Idol, VH, Whitesnake, The Cars, Journey, Michael Jackson, and a whole lot more. No cancer around, just some good suds and good tunes and no cats - the way Heaven should be.

Sounds like Heaven to me! Van Halen is probably the most upbeat music I ever heard. Ever feel a little down? Just put a little Van Halen on! It's impossible to be depressed while listening to Van Halen. Bottom's up!


With Lovingkindness (metta),
vic

[Bella]

Hi Fallen and welcome to the forms.


Actually the pain management Roberta is talking about seems to have evolved for the better over the years. I can remember a doctor referring to my grandmother, 25 years ago, and having concerns about her developing an Addiction to her morphine. She wasn’t in the final stages, but close enough. I remember thinking that was crazy; she was clearly in considerable pain. What difference would it make if she developed an addiction before she died?

You sound happy, RudeAwakening, as it seems you have no pain with these drugs. Of course, it does not matter if one gets addicted to them. I have now been reading that most doctors with cancer choose in home hospice rather than treatment with experimental drugs.

[WWE LOVER]

Sounds like Heaven to me! Van Halen is probably the most upbeat music I ever heard. Ever feel a little down? Just put a little Van Halen on! It's impossible to be depressed while listening to Van Halen. Bottom's up!


With Lovingkindness (metta),
vic

Yeah, I love Van Halen, regardless of if it's Roth or Sammy.

But I like Roth a little more, as I am also a gigolo wherever I go too.