God's got some splainin' to do?!?!?!

[Highlander]

BruceAdama,

I don't intend for this to be a flip comment, so please don't take it that way. It seems the answer to your question of why you're here may be in your above comment. Perhaps you are here to learn patience and forgiveness, as you seem to lack these qualities. You harbor, and seem to actually nourish, a great deal of anger, much of it self-inflicted. Why not just relax and deal with the fact that you ARE here and let go of the resentment. Growth can't take place when you're enveloped in negativity.
Get some positive stuff going in your life. You're stuck in a negative feed back loop. Work on your attitude, my friend.

[BruceAdama]

*removed by poster*

[Fallen]

First off, let me thank you for directly answering my question in the other thread... I will post a few more very soon. Now to this... I was going to wait until tomorrow to post my reply here, but decided I couldn't wait, because this really struck a chord with me. This is pretty much at the core of why I'm feeling how I'm feeling now... because my life is pretty much in ruins right now, and the fact that I'm 35 makes me realize that I don't have much time left for things to get better. So when I hear people say that God put us here to learn, and that WE chose to come here and live as we do... uh-uh... I'm sorry, but there are inherent flaws with this.

We all operate on the premise that God knows all. He knows all that was, is, and ever will be. If that be the case, there's simply no credibility to the logic that we have to come to Earth to learn lessons, or that the physical Earth is the best place for that, because by definition, God knows everything, so all we need to know could and should come directly from God, as we are his creations... of him. To have him resort to sending us to Earth to learn what he could teach us in an instant quite frankly smacks of laziness on his part. I don't buy it.

And then there is the issue of pain. Again, as with above... if the key to everything is love, and that we are all supposed to learn to love one another, then why not simply keep us in heaven, where not only is there only love and joy, but also constant access to all knowledge? To create an Earth with pain and death defies all reason because it is simply not necessary. I didn't choose this life, and I actually know this for a fact, because of a pre-birth memory I have... I was actually quite vehemently against coming back here and living this life, and quite frankly, I DO think God owes me an explanation. He owes me an explanation of why he claims to have graced us with free will, yet we have no say in weather or not we are forced back here by him, which kind of makes him look like a tyrant, IMO. I question his wisdom. I question the wisdom of being so lazy that he would rather send his creation to a world full of pain, because he feels that his creation has some lesson to learn, than take the time himself to teach his creation. I question the wisdom of a God that allows millions of people and even animals to suffer and die, or live in poverty, for no reason whatsoever. As stated above, God himself can teach us what we need to know. Therefore, I find God's "plan" immensely flawed, and quite pointless.

I read one NDE account where someone had killed himself, and the souls he saw in heaven were telling him that he couldn't die, because they needed him here on Earth, and how supposedly those "up there" are watching and learning from us down here. Excuse me? I'm not some rat in a maze, running around performing for the amusement of others. I didn't choose this life, and as it is now, I certainly don't want it, so to be frank, screw what others up there want, or feel they need from me. If they feel they want to learn something, let THEM come down here and live their own life, and do for themselves, instead of watching from their safety above like cowards. I'm not here for anyone's benefit, nor do I like being used.

I don't mean for this message to sound harsh or get me banned, but this is truly how I feel. I admit that I am quite angry at God at this point in my life, but as I said, IMO, life itself is not necessary, so I don't see why any of us should be put here in the first place. So yes, I strongly believe that God owes me an explanation. I can say more, but I think this is enough for tonight. There is no reason for life here on Earth, and if there is, there's no reason for it to be hard or unpleasant, and the fact that it is makes me regard God as a lazy bully. There is no NEED for imperfection. There is no NEED for negativity... all those things were created by God for the Earth, simply because HE felt that we somehow needed to experience it, when in truth, we don't. Imperfection and negativity don't exist in heaven, so why create it here? There is no reason other than the sadism of watching us suffer through it, which as indicated, is pointless.

Freedom from suffering and eventual liberation from this physical realm are brought about through the process of merging with God.

Pain and suffering are necessary conditions for the survival of an ego. Without it, life could not exist. Those who are born with dysfunctional pain recepters are more prone to dying. Instead of pulling one's hand away from a hot stove, people with this disorder will allow their hand to burn. The same is true for negativity, and all other displeasant emotions. Your attachment to ego keeps you in this ego plane of existence, where pain and suffering are conditions that sustain the ego, and keep it alive. It needs both hunger and satiation, both pain and pleasure, both sadness and happiness, both loneliness and feelings of companionship, as mechanisms that direct life sustaining behavior.

Your anger, frustration, resentment, sense of entitlement, and rebellious disposition are reflections of the reasons for why you are here, and they reflect your level of understanding and of ego-attachment. Though, they are what I consider to be natural reactions, feelings that every ego experiences. The key however, is to accept, understand, and let go (of ego-attachments), and continue on in one's spiritual journey in this present lifetime.

[vic smyth]

It does, Roberta, but that in itself addresses the biggest problem I have with all of this, which I mentioned elsewhere, which is the whole "veil of forgetfulness" which we have in this physical life. The veil is counterproductive to God's very plan, and is quite frankly from a logical standpoint, quite stupid. If we are sent here to learn certain things, and if the others in the afterlife gain from these lessons too, then why constantly impose forgetfulness upon those who incarnate? All it does is either erase all knowledge gained, forcing the same lessons to be repeated over and over and over again, or it simply becomes redundant... experiences being repeated for no purpose whatsoever. If we retained all the knowledge we have amassed over our incarnations, we would not only know the lessons we've learned, but would also know God's plan, and what is expected of us. Nothing would change... God would still have his stupid little Earth social experiment, since we'd still all have free will... it's still up to US to heed God's plan or not. But without the veil, at least we'd know what that plan is, and we'd also know what lessons we've learned, and what to do when we need to do it. But it all comes down to choice. But by imposing this shroud which blocks memory, God isn't advancing anything. Rather, he's quite impeding any progress, and stifling it... slowing it to a mere snail's pace, which is both sad and stupid, but whatever... it's what God wants, apparently. But if I knew WHY I was forced here, and knew just what it was that God felt I had to do or learn... at least I'd know, and my anger wouldn't be blind rage... it would either be specifically directed rage, or perhaps a new understanding. But with the veil, I have no such insight.

I agree with you completely. This is one of the reasons that some Gnostics of the first century, Jews and Christians, rebelled against this 'God' (referred to as the Demiurge), by purposely breaking 'His' commandments. I rebel against this 'subordinate creator god' using the one weapon that he cannot defend himself against -- Lovingkindness. BruceAdama, I encourage you to join me!


With Lovingkindness (metta),
vic

[Fallen]

Freedom from suffering and eventual liberation from this physical realm are brought about through the process of merging with God.

Pain and suffering are necessary conditions for the survival of an ego. Without it, life could not exist. Those who are born with dysfunctional pain recepters are more prone to dying. Instead of pulling one's hand away from a hot stove, people with this disorder will allow their hand to burn. The same is true for negativity, and all other displeasant emotions. Your attachment to ego keeps you in this ego plane of existence, where pain and suffering are conditions that sustain the ego, and keep it alive. It needs both hunger and satiation, both pain and pleasure, both sadness and happiness, both loneliness and feelings of companionship, as mechanisms that direct life sustaining behavior.

Your anger, frustration, resentment, sense of entitlement, and rebellious disposition are reflections of the reasons for why you are here, and they reflect your level of understanding and of ego-attachment. Though, they are what I consider to be natural reactions, feelings that every ego experiences. The key however, is to accept, understand, and let go (of ego-attachments), and continue on in one's spiritual journey in this present lifetime.

In addition, I would say that God does not want anyone to suffer, because as you suffer, God also suffers. God is not some sort of dictator or judge or egomaniacal manipulator. These are all false, anthropomorphic projections. God is an infinite, eternal, unconditional love that would melt all pain and suffering--all thoughts of sorrow or hate or resentment--away. God is Oneness and complete understanding.

[Fallen]

It does, Roberta, but that in itself addresses the biggest problem I have with all of this, which I mentioned elsewhere, which is the whole "veil of forgetfulness" which we have in this physical life. The veil is counterproductive to God's very plan, and is quite frankly from a logical standpoint, quite stupid. If we are sent here to learn certain things, and if the others in the afterlife gain from these lessons too, then why constantly impose forgetfulness upon those who incarnate? All it does is either erase all knowledge gained, forcing the same lessons to be repeated over and over and over again, or it simply becomes redundant... experiences being repeated for no purpose whatsoever. If we retained all the knowledge we have amassed over our incarnations, we would not only know the lessons we've learned, but would also know God's plan, and what is expected of us. Nothing would change... God would still have his stupid little Earth social experiment, since we'd still all have free will... it's still up to US to heed God's plan or not. But without the veil, at least we'd know what that plan is, and we'd also know what lessons we've learned, and what to do when we need to do it. But it all comes down to choice. But by imposing this shroud which blocks memory, God isn't advancing anything. Rather, he's quite impeding any progress, and stifling it... slowing it to a mere snail's pace, which is both sad and stupid, but whatever... it's what God wants, apparently. But if I knew WHY I was forced here, and knew just what it was that God felt I had to do or learn... at least I'd know, and my anger wouldn't be blind rage... it would either be specifically directed rage, or perhaps a new understanding. But with the veil, I have no such insight.

I feel that there is a general purpose of this existence, and that the without the veil, the actions that we are supposed to carry out would be inauthentic and not truely of our own free will.

[BruceAdama]

^

I disagree, and I think that that is a desperate attempt to rationalize the utterly useless and counterproductive veil. Free will is by definition free. Nothing can change it. The Bible is supposedly God's word, and his teachings, and is made available to everyone around the world, yet there are many people who either do not believe it, or who chose not to read the Bible... out of free will... their own choice. By the same token, having God's plan available to us free of the veil would not change anything... as with the Bible, some would choose to honor God's plan for them, while others might not.

[Fallen]

^

I disagree, and I think that that is a desperate attempt to rationalize the utterly useless and counterproductive veil. Free will is by definition free. Nothing can change it. The Bible is supposedly God's word, and his teachings, and is made available to everyone around the world, yet there are many people who either do not believe it, or who chose not to read the Bible... out of free will... their own choice. By the same token, having God's plan available to us free of the veil would not change anything... as with the Bible, some would choose to honor God's plan for them, while others might not.

What is true love? If someone claims that they love you but yet they were aware that you had enormous wealth before meeting you, would you not be suspicious of the authenticity of their love? Would it truely be authentic, or would their love be influenced by your wealth? If you had married such a hypothetical person and lost all wealth, and they decided to leave you because of it, you would know that the love was not authentic, but false and largely influenced by wealth.

So if the purpose in this life is to love others unconditionally, than it must be truely performed without any conditions, (e.g., the knowledge that doing so would bring you liberation from suffering). And if said actions are to be performed according to free will, then your choices must be truely free (i.e., free from the influence of your past life memories).

My presumption tells me that if all were to remember their past lives, then all would choose the same path, and this choice would be neither authentic or free which defeats the purpose of being here.

[poeticblue]

^

I disagree, and I think that that is a desperate attempt to rationalize the utterly useless and counterproductive veil. Free will is by definition free. Nothing can change it. The Bible is supposedly God's word, and his teachings, and is made available to everyone around the world, yet there are many people who either do not believe it, or who chose not to read the Bible... out of free will... their own choice. By the same token, having God's plan available to us free of the veil would not change anything... as with the Bible, some would choose to honor God's plan for them, while others might not.

Why all the anger? Why all of the frustration? Why are you here on this forum?

[Roberta Grimes]

Oh my! Dear beloved Bruce, there are so many things which are apparently part of God's plan that seem stupid or counterproductive to me, starting with the very fact that we even apparently need to be born on earth at all, and going right through birth defects and hurricanes and venomous snakes. For so long I was sure that I could have done it better! But I don't think, even with my having felt now and then that this or that wasn't designed quite right, that I ever have harbored the kind of dismissive rage at God that you express here. I worry about you, my beloved friend! And I feel compelled to say - patiently, gently, and with a hope that you will read this in the loving spirit in which I write it - something that I never have said to anyone in two years and more than 1500 posts on these forums:

YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THIS.

I believe that I can see some ways in which your thoughts about the veil of forgetfulness in reincarnation may be in error, but my interpretation is just a counter-view and ultimately meaningless. I won't even try to offer it now. Instead, I will tell you that I have spent the past half-century studying God. I have studied all the great religions. I have read many hundreds of afterlife communications and channeled communications from very advanced beings. I have hungered to better understand God with everything in me, in all that I did, in my worklife and in my forty-year marriage and in the raising of my children and grandchildren. I have not romanticized God. But I want to really know God! I resonate with that old George Harrison song - "My Sweet Lord, I really want to know You! And it takes so long, my Lord!!" And now, at 66 years old, I begin - just begin - to have a dawning sense that I am coming to begin to understand God. It's funny, really. I have spent my whole life searching, only to come back to pretty much where I began! Dear beloved Bruce, so young and so bruised-feeling, here is how I now see God:

1) God is infinite, perfect love. It sounded too simple when I was a child. But it really is that simple! God is Love. We cannot begin to comprehend the staggering magnitude of God as love because we think of love for something or someone. No. God is Love. No object for God's love even is needed. God's love really is all that exists!

2) Each of us is part of God. For us to think of ourselves as God's children puts too much of a separation between us. No. We are in God. That infinite, ecstatic, perfect love that God is actually is all that we are, too!

3) To question or doubt God is to put us at odds with our own selves. This is the part of what you say that bothers me, dear Bruce. God won't be angry with you or punish you for trying to judge God and insisting that you know better - God's love is much too big for that. But in deciding that you know better and being so angry that God has not taken your advice, you split your own self asunder, dear friend. You cannot do that! You are God! No matter what wrongs and insults you think you remember, and no matter how sincerely you are confident that you could do it better, and no matter how frustrated you feel now, you cannot go on thinking this way without doing your mind horrendous damage. It's like using your left hand to beat up on your right arm; it's like banging your head against a wall to remove a thought. It is being at war with yourself.

Because I love you and I want you to be happy and to live a fruitful and fulfilling life, I ask you - just for now - to please trust me. If you want ever to be happy, here is what you must do:

1) Forgive God. Several times each day, call God into your mind and say, "You are God, whole and perfect. All is forgiven and released." You might add, "Even though I don't understand everything now, I trust that in the fullness of time You will help me to understand it."

2) Trust in God's Love. In all my research over decades I have never seen the slightest hint that our trust in God's perfect love is misplaced. Indeed, quite the opposite: the more advanced a being becomes, the more perfectly it trusts.

3) Try to live your plan forward as you are able to understand its unfolding. Sure, it looks lousy now! Sure, you hate it. You have long resented having to live it. But you are forgiving God now, and you are trusting in God's perfect love. You will be amazed to see what a difference that makes!

Being angry at God will get you nowhere, dear beloved Bruce. Until you turn that around, you will be spinning your spiritual wheels and inflicting upon yourself unnecessary pain and stress. Please trust me in this, dear friend - please try it!