"One Way to Heaven"?

[Sapphire]

I had a conversation with someone on Facebook this morning, and the best way to present it is to c/p it here (please excuse the length; names have been omitted):

ORIGINAL POST:
A little boy was waiting for his mother to come out of the grocery store.
As he waited, he was approached by a man who asked,
"Son, can you tell me where the Post Office is?"

The little boy replied, "Sure! Just go straight down this street
a coupla blocks and turn to your right."

The man thanked the boy kindly and said, "I'm the new pastor in town.
I'd like for you to come to church on Sunday.
I'll show you how to get to Heaven."

The little boy replied with a chuckle. "Awww, come on...
You don't even know the way to the Post Office."

ME: Cute :-) What the Pastor obviously doesn't know is that the boy will get to Heaven, regardless!


SHE: How do you know he will get to heaven?? :-)


ME: We all do. There are many paths to God, who is All-Loving, and excludes NOBODY :-)


SHE: There is one one path to God, through His Son Jesus Christ, and that way is to repent of your sins-ask Jesus to forgive you of all your sins, and come into your heart and live with you forever, God is All-Loving, BUT God cannot lie, He gives us the option of Free-will, what wee do with that is on us. He doesn't want anyone to perish and LOVES us all the way to the gates of hell, but when He told Adam & Eve they could eat of any tree except the tree "Of Knowledge of Good & Evil" He set up the option for Free-will. So see He doesn't exclude Anyone. People choose to exclude Him. :-)


ME: But He excludes NO ONE.... His children are not disposable, **including those who could not have possibly ever known Him**...through no fault of their own (predating Jesus' existence, lack of Internet, no contact with the world, etc.)...free will or not! :-)


SHE: That is why we send Missionaries out to try to reach as many people in Third World Countries as we can and "Many were added to the rolls Daily" Africa is being saturated with Missionaries, Russia is being saturated with Missionaries, China and now Islam too are being inundated with Missionaries to hear the word of the Lord, The GOOD NEWS!!!!! :-) No one is being left out!!! Praise God!!! But it has to be the persons choice, the Lord can come and knock, however it is ONLY when the person chooses to accept Him as their Savior that they can be saved and be assured they will live with Him in Heaven FOREVER!!!!! :-)

ME: That is wonderful....for those availed of that blessing :-) Before Jesus, there were no missionaries... probably much illiteracy... yet there were countless good souls who undoubtedly lived lives of love, service to others and introspection... examples of Jesus' timeless teachings, before He ever even appeared.


I haven't received a reply to my latest comment, and I wonder what she could say that wouldn't masquerade as "well, they're just going to Hell." I really don't believe someone with Christ's love in her heart would allude to something like that, but hers is a rather one-track way of thought.

Maybe she believes she is "witnessing" to anyone who might read that Facebook exchange? Perhaps I, too, witnessed in my own way, wanting to assert that God does not exclude anybody based on religion. I get so tired of reading and hearing the "one way / one path" ideas. I was trying to get her to elaborate upon the basis of her belief, perhaps post a Bible quote to validate the "One Way Only" tenet (which I know does not actually exist).

Metaphorically, that line of thought is no different from myriad students who flunk Calculus without its study material ever having been printed on the syllabus.

I suppose that "witnessing" is effective only if the listener is receptive to it.

[Eli]

I would like to point out that although missionaries are being sent to third world locations, they might not necessarily have contact with EVERYONE there to spread the message of god. I also didn't see your respond to your post about tribes that have no contact with the world as well, as such groups of people do exist.

It is sad to see someone condemning people because they do not share her beliefs, especially going as far to exclude a child. I wonder what would happen if one of her children did not share her beliefs.

[Sapphire]

I was waiting to see how she would respond, but as of now there hasn't been one.

I don't know whether I stumped her or if she thinks I'm a lost cause. The fact that my post was 'the last word' might give the impression to all who happen to read it that there simply IS no credible retort. I don't know how much opposition she's experienced, though it is possible that her contact is limited to those of similar beliefs.

[Roberta Grimes]

Dear Sapphire, my experience with people like your friend has been that they are self-righteously certain that whatever they have been taught is right and holy... until you really challenge it. Since I have a degree in religion and have read the Bible through many times - and I can quote parts of the Gospels by heart - I generally know more than these folks do about their own professed religion. And since Jesus is my Wayshower and Best Friend and I am advocating for His teachings by advocating against the religious nonsense that they are spouting, arguing with them can be fun for me - although it generally doesn't go on for long ;-).

The plain truth is that mainstream Christian teachings are inconsistent with the Gospels. They demean God, and they severely demean Jesus. And they make no sense! They have just one virtue to their believers, which is the big thing that keeps Christianity going: they make "salvation" seem so easy. But salvation - or spiritual growth - is decidedly not easy! As we know from the evidence - and as our beloved Lord taught - we are here to learn to love and forgive. There is no sacrificial-redemption short-cut! So basically, mainstream Christianity is propounding a horrendous lie. And it pains me very much to say that.

[Sapphire]

Dear Sapphire, my experience with people like your friend has been that they are self-righteously certain that whatever they have been taught is right and holy... until you really challenge it. Since I have a degree in religion and have read the Bible through many times - and I can quote parts of the Gospels by heart - I generally know more than these folks do about their own professed religion. And since Jesus is my Wayshower and Best Friend and I am advocating for His teachings by advocating against the religious nonsense that they are spouting, arguing with them can be fun for me - although it generally doesn't go on for long ;-).

The plain truth is that mainstream Christian teachings are inconsistent with the Gospels. They demean God, and they severely demean Jesus. And they make no sense! They have just one virtue to their believers, which is the big thing that keeps Christianity going: they make "salvation" seem so easy. But salvation - or spiritual growth - is decidedly not easy! As we know from the evidence - and as our beloved Lord taught - we are here to learn to love and forgive. There is no sacrificial-redemption short-cut! So basically, mainstream Christianity is propounding a horrendous lie. And it pains me very much to say that.

Actually I don't know this person at all; the original post was by a friend (who 'liked' my first reply about the boy going to Heaven). I typically eschew religion and politics on FB, and pretty much in general life. However, I couldn't resist offering my $.02 on this little 'joke.'

I almost titled this post 'Bible Thumpers' but that probably would have been perceived as facetious, and that's not what I wanted to project. However, by their words and actions, there is a lot of Bible-thumping going on.

The very God they claim is so loving supposedly turns His back on anyone who doesn't 'choose' Jesus and 'accept Him as their Savior.'

It simply makes no sense! Why would a loving God do this? He wouldn't... it is a blatant contradiction!

[Roberta Grimes]

Actually I don't know this person at all; the original post was by a friend (who 'liked' my first reply about the boy going to Heaven). I typically eschew religion and politics on FB, and pretty much in general life. However, I couldn't resist offering my $.02 on this little 'joke.'

I almost titled this post 'Bible Thumpers' but that probably would have been perceived as facetious, and that's not what I wanted to project. However, by their words and actions, there is a lot of Bible-thumping going on.

The very God they claim is so loving supposedly turns His back on anyone who doesn't 'choose' Jesus and 'accept Him as their Savior.'

It simply makes no sense! Why would a loving God do this? He wouldn't... it is a blatant contradiction!

Very well said, dear Sapphire. I was such an ardent Christian from childhood that it wasn't until I was in my fifties that I first understood how nonsensical it was. And then I was appalled at my own thickness for ever having believed it at all! You're right in saying that it makes God seem petty and cruel and (worst of all) unloving. And Jesus tells us throughout the Gospels that He is our teacher, and His teachings are the way to spiritual growth - but they turn Him into just a human sacrifice?

It is far beyond wonderful that we can choose Jesus, and the teachings of Jesus are internally perfect in light of what we learn from the afterlife evidence. What was harder for me was realizing that if we are going to choose to follow Jesus, then we also must reject the unfortunate religion that bears His name.

[Sapphire]

Very well said, dear Sapphire. I was such an ardent Christian from childhood that it wasn't until I was in my fifties that I first understood how nonsensical it was. And then I was appalled at my own thickness for ever having believed it at all! You're right in saying that it makes God seem petty and cruel and (worst of all) unloving. And Jesus tells us throughout the Gospels that He is our teacher, and His teachings are the way to spiritual growth - but they turn Him into just a human sacrifice?

It is far beyond wonderful that we can choose Jesus, and the teachings of Jesus are internally perfect in light of what we learn from the afterlife evidence. What was harder for me was realizing that if we are going to choose to follow Jesus, then we also must reject the unfortunate religion that bears His name.

I've wondered about this practically all my life. I do consider myself fortunate in the fact that the churches I attended did not browbeat the "gates of hell" sort of prosecution into our heads; but rather, concentrated on the Gospels, the joy and the Good News.

As a child, I also asked myself What happens to the Jews? Buddhists? Arabs? et al. Nobody I knew had a definitive answer. Enter the Internet... and sites such as this: EVERYONE goes to Heaven!

[Fasaga]

Everyone goes to Heaven, and everyone's journey is individual. All the Prophets and all the Teachers that have come before all taught primarily the same messages with their slightly different ways of communicating, emphasising and demonstrating their meanings , it was then mankind that translated, twisted, added and rewrote much of it for a variety of reasons only known to those at the time.

There are no Sinners in God's eyes, he Loves all equally, we determine what is Sinfull based on our Cultures Ethics and Morals and our own Environments.
If murder is the Greatest Sin, then how can it be condoned as a form of metting out Justice, because that Culture accepts it.

[Sapphire]

There are no Sinners in God's eyes, he Loves all equally, we determine what is Sinfull based on our Cultures Ethics and Morals and our own Environments.
If murder is the Greatest Sin, then how can it be condoned as a form of metting out Justice, because that Culture accepts it.

I have only recently reconsidered my views on Capital Punishment, and because of what I have read here and in other sources. Nobody has the right to end someone else's spiritual path. And that goes for all of those people who have "sinned" by committing crimes against humanity as well as animals. No matter what I think, how angry I may be and how dismayed I feel at their hateful actions, I now realize that to kill them is not the answer.

[Fasaga]

I have only recently reconsidered my views on Capital Punishment, and because of what I have read here and in other sources. Nobody has the right to end someone else's spiritual path. And that goes for all of those people who have "sinned" by committing crimes against humanity as well as animals. No matter what I think, how angry I may be and how dismayed I feel at their hateful actions, I now realize that to kill them is not the answer.

People empower People, the greatest Villains in History would have come to nothing had they not had the following and support to do what they did.