Signs From Our Loved Ones

[Andrew]

I read Roberta's Blog which has some interesting material.

I can accept that sometimes there's a link between here and there which allows manipulation of our physical environment by someone in the etheric. But some claims sorely test that acceptance and coincidence is hard, if not impossible, to rule out. We've been down that path before!

What might truly convince me is a declaration that such-and-such will happen at a certain time and then have it happen.

Although I realize that it is perhaps contrary to certain afterlife evidence, my own personal inclination is to agree with Mac in this particular case. Recently, I have privately reconsidered this debate myself, and I no longer think that it is reasonable to conclude that all coincidences are indeed communications from the deceased. Perhaps the vast majority are but, as Mac said, coincidences seem to be all but impossible to rule out entirely. There are a lot of grey areas in the afterlife field, and it is not usually possible to create a black-and-white rule, such as one saying that all coincidences are signs. I now tend to feel that it is somewhat rash to assume any coincidence to be a spiritual sign without proper evidence and research. I have become open to the fact coincidences may indeed occur without any spiritual help.

It is also important to consider that the mind could subconsciously attract the signs it wishes to see. This is in my own opinion perhaps the most likely explanation for a coincidence, assuming that it is not of spiritual origin. And, there is always the possibility that a particular coincidence is indeed simply a fluke of the universe. I now feel that we, as living humans, cannot accurately make definitive statements about what is and isn't of spiritual nature.

(Disclaimer: I speak only for myself and not as a staff member here. My views do not necessarily align with those of the website's management team as a whole.)

[Roberta Grimes]

I love this! (Rubs hands together gleefully ;-)) Such a great discussion - thank you all! In my blog post I gave you the "standard dogma" received from dead communicators (to the extent that one exists). Now I will tell you what I think:

1) Some of each of the kinds of events mentioned in my blog post are communications, and some are not. Absolutely right, dear Mac. While each kind of event has been shown to be a sign in multiple instances - i.e. a dead loved one has confirmed through a medium that he produced it, or he has produced additional such phenomena upon request - some butterflies are just butterflies, after all. Some blinking lights are just bad connections. Some freakish coincidences do occur.

2) We are used to the idea of coincidences, but the odds against chance for many of these coincidental events actually are pretty long. Even though we have been told by upper-level beings that there is no such thing as a coincidence, I don't believe that. In my experience, these beings are not always right, in part because so many of them are so far removed from the earth experience that they have lost the ability to think in subtle or nuanced terms. They can be overly dogmatic, and occasionally they exaggerate. Nevertheless, we mustn't let the fact that coincidences can happen blind us to the fact that many (maybe most?) really extreme coincidences are so unlikely to occur at random that the communication explanation is not unreasonable.

3) Communications tend to "stand out" when they occur. It is almost as if our minds highlight them when they happen - they have a kind of halo around them - you really notice them! I had never noticed either butterflies or dragonflies in the back yard of the home into which we recently moved until after my mother died two weeks ago. Then suddenly, amazingly, a few mornings later our back yard was full of dragonflies! And all that day, whenever I went out the back door - which I did often - a large dragonfly would fly from right to left in front of me. The next day I saw no dragonflies at all, but whenever I went outside there were a couple of dozen butterflies of several different varieties flitting everywhere. It was only this morning that I realized that in the past ten days or so there have been "dragonfly days" and "butterfly days," but never both kinds of insects at once. Did they actually alternate? I wish I had been keeping track! Today was a dragonfly day, and they were huge today. Signs from my mother, or just odd coincidences? Who knows? But these insect sightings have the same memorable "feel" to them that I recall from those whiffs of my grandmother's perfume when I was in my teens. So I lean toward the "signs" theory.

4) The more personal these events are, the more likely they are to be signs. That is my own theory! A friend of mine who lost her husband several years ago told me that in the first few weeks after his death, several times when she turned on her car radio she would hear just beginning to play the same special "oldie" that they danced to at their wedding reception. It was a 20-year-old song that wasn't major even when it was new and is hardly ever played anymore. To me, pretty clearly, that was her husband's doing! And my cousin's intention to send roses to my sister and me a week ago when she first heard that our mother had died that inexplicably turned into her sending us calla lilies - a flower that she didn't know had been closely associated with my father's death - also felt like a sign. It gave me gooseflesh!

5) It may not be important to know for sure whether some specific thing is a sign. Unless we are documenting objective research, who cares? Each of the common signs has been verified repeatedly to have been used by the dead in some instances. So if they happen to you - and if they have that "feel" - and if it makes you happy to think of them as little hugs from your loved ones, then who are any of us to question your conviction that you are getting signs?

Above all, I think it is important to make the newly bereaved aware of the most common signs. If you don't know that the dead have been known to use specific signs to signal their survival, then how will you recognize them if they happen to you? If someone you care about loses a loved one, please share this information with them. As those of us who have experienced signs can attest, getting a hug from someone you desperately miss can be such a tremendous comfort!

[Carol and Mikey]

Great post Roberta! I especially like points three through five! I will continue to stand strong on this subject because it is signs that have brought me to where I am today! Yes, meeting Sally was huge, but it was what happened to me before I met Sally Baldwin that made it even possible! Going through the loss of a child is pain beyond pain. Loss of a close loved one is pain beyond pain. Signs are the life line to hope and peace! It lets you know your loved one lives one! And that they are close! Is there possibility of coincidences in life? I am sure there is! (You are right Mac.) BUT, when it comes to "spiritual communication", there are no coincidences according to Mikey! It helps bring positive loving energy to the bereaved! It is real! And I will stand solid on this! SOLID! (And so will Mikey!)
Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

[Fasaga]

I would agree that some dragonflys are just dragonflys and some butterflys are just butterflys. I would also agree that not all perceived signs are spiritual communications or even spiritual in origin, and yes, many things are created by mind energy, motivated by what in each instance is anyone's guess. But I will have to stand firm on my previous position, in particular because of more recent events, that things here on Earth may be even more orchestrated than I previously thought. Sorry folks, there are no coincidences.

[mac]

Sorry Roberta and I apologize in advance for the wet blanket that mac is about to put on things.


"Learn what to watch for, and every time you spot what may be a sign from dead loved ones, be sure to thank them for it. It's a little thing that we can do to make them happy!" The corollary to this is that there are folk who will ascribe every insignificant occurrence as a sign. Perhaps it doesn't matter if it makes some happy but it can sadden those who don't ever see such signs in their own lives.....

We can't ever know how many or what percentage of the recently departed try to make their presence known to those they leave behind. Each day many thousands of souls pass over. Do they all have a level of spiritual evolvement which leaves them trying to send a sign to their loved ones? Or might they be so overcome by the changes they're experiencing that it's the last thing on their minds?

We don't have those answers and unless someone bereaved has some prior understanding of the nature of death and life beyond it, I personally would not encourage them to look for signs.

[Roberta Grimes]

Sorry Roberta and I apologize in advance for the wet blanket that mac is about to put on things.


"Learn what to watch for, and every time you spot what may be a sign from dead loved ones, be sure to thank them for it. It's a little thing that we can do to make them happy!" The corollary to this is that there are folk who will ascribe every insignificant occurrence as a sign. Perhaps it doesn't matter if it makes some happy but it can sadden those who don't ever see such signs in their own lives.....

We can't ever know how many or what percentage of the recently departed try to make their presence known to those they leave behind. Each day many thousands of souls pass over. Do they all have a level of spiritual evolvement which leaves them trying to send a sign to their loved ones? Or might they be so overcome by the changes they're experiencing that it's the last thing on their minds?

We don't have those answers and unless someone bereaved has some prior understanding of the nature of death and life beyond it, I personally would not encourage them to look for signs.

No worries, dear Mac! Hardly a wet blanket at all - I think the differences between us on this topic are pretty subtle. Have you personally had signs from your dead loved ones? (You may have said something about this, in which case I apologize - too lazy to hunt for it. Besides, it's my birthday so I get a pass ;-).) People who haven't had signs (or haven't noticed them) tend not to understand how much plain fun there is in getting these little hugs - the feel of it is very much like a hug. It lifts your spirits just at a time when you are forgetting how much your mom had needed to go and starting (painfully) to think of her as she was years back and suddenly missing that mom. Hey, look at all the butterflies! It dries your tears. It helps a lot! Emphatically, dear Mac, I see no harm at all in letting the newly bereaved know what to look for and encouraging them to believe they have had a sign if something happens that sort-of looks like a sign. What harm can that do? In the worst case, it was just a butterfly. The odds are that their loved one is fine anyway, so if they mistake a plain butterfly for a sign and that makes them feel better, who is hurt by that?

[Roberta Grimes]

Hi, I am new here (first post Friday on the Carol and Mikey thread).

Roberta, my mom passed in 1986, when I was in college; I was unaware of 'signs' (this was pre-Internet of course, and way before I ever knew to be aware of such things).

Given that fact, I wonder if my mom has long ago moved on in her spiritual progress and since 'given up' sending signs because I just did not know to look for them back then. Should I still be looking for signs, or has that window closed?

I miss her every day.

I am sorry not to have answered this sooner, dear Sapphire - meant to do it right away but got distracted. To frankly answer your question, everybody is different and (as Mac says above) we have no way to know how many of our loved ones send signs of their survival. Apparently it is not something that the newly dead can do naturally, but they need to be trained or assisted in doing it; so if they think we won't recognize signs if we get them, my hunch is that they may not bother. This says nothing at all about your mother - who is fine and happy and still loved you infinitely - but it argues that after more than 25 years you probably shouldn't be trying to spot signs now. Most of those who are still giving signs decades later seem to have been "signers" right from the start. Vic is right in saying that just the fact that she is so often in your mind likely means that she is thinking of you, too - remember that our minds are all connected! And the garage light activity could well be a sign from her. ... Or it could be a sign from someone else altogether. Several years ago the husband of a client - a man that I never knew in life - would blink my office light to get me to call his wife whenever she was upset (he had just died in a freak accident). I only knew who it was that was messing with my light because I called her on impulse the first time it happened, and I found her upset. (And, yes, I assume that "impulse" to call her was put into my mind by this wonderful, forceful man. He is the same guy who took to shouting in my head that I had to call his wife if I didn't happen to be near my office light when she needed me.)

Welcome to our community, dear Sapphire, and please accept a hug from me about the loss of your mother even so many years ago. Know that she remains your mother, she takes a close interest in your life, and she likely led you to us so you could find comfort here. We share a sadness at not having them with us, dear friend. But we also each have a special guardian angel!

[Sapphire]

Thank you so much, Roberta—and Happy Birthday to you

I know that sometimes 'a butterfly is just a butterfly' yet since I first learned about the signs, rather recently, I tried to tune in so to speak. Incidentally, this summer I have seen a few instances of dragonflies appearing. Before I began seriously reading about this, I don't recall noticing them. In June, my husband and I were sitting on our beach balcony and about a dozen or so of them whizzed in front of us, hesitating in a swarm for a few seconds and then vanished. Then, a couple of weeks ago, I had parked the car at work and noticed a dragonfly alight on the hood, zip away, come back for a few seconds and then it was gone.

I wondered, what if....? I looked at the sky and asked, "That you, Mom?"

The thing with the garage light intrigued me and I thought it might have been Mom because Dad still misses her so; she is constantly in his thoughts and he kisses her picture every day. We have a two-car garage and it was HIS side that was lighting.

These might have been coincidences, but even after 26 years—who knows?

I appreciate the hug and the welcome! And thank you again for your kind response, Roberta!

[mac]

No worries, dear Mac! Hardly a wet blanket at all - I think the differences between us on this topic are pretty subtle. Have you personally had signs from your dead loved ones? (You may have said something about this, in which case I apologize - too lazy to hunt for it. Besides, it's my birthday so I get a pass ;-).) People who haven't had signs (or haven't noticed them) tend not to understand how much plain fun there is in getting these little hugs - the feel of it is very much like a hug. It lifts your spirits just at a time when you are forgetting how much your mom had needed to go and starting (painfully) to think of her as she was years back and suddenly missing that mom. Hey, look at all the butterflies! It dries your tears. It helps a lot! Emphatically, dear Mac, I see no harm at all in letting the newly bereaved know what to look for and encouraging them to believe they have had a sign if something happens that sort-of looks like a sign. What harm can that do? In the worst case, it was just a butterfly. The odds are that their loved one is fine anyway, so if they mistake a plain butterfly for a sign and that makes them feel better, who is hurt by that?

(happy birthday, Roberta! )

You asked if I personally have had signs , Roberta, and my answer is that I've never been aware of a single instance where I thought there was a sign that a loved one might be nearby trying to make their existence known. Yet I class myself as totally a 'believer' (to use the word that others use). Maybe that's why I personally haven't had signs - no need for 'em....? Maybe I've been fortunate that what happened to me was different from the experience of others. Maybe now I'm making virtue of necessity but I do feel I'm often able to 'stand back' from most situations providing a broader perspective than I might otherwise have. Sometimes I've effectively hobbled that perspective by allowing it to be influenced by others, others who sought to persuade me that my own was wrong. I can confidently declare that on each of these occasions I've lived to deeply regret the eventual outcomes....

But maybe it does do no harm to encourage the bereaved to believe they will see signs if they look. And I do know that their loved ones will be looked after far better than they are looked after on the whole. But maybe my concerns about signs mirrors a similar discomfort about Santa Claus, fairies etc. Some parents take these stories way beyond the point where I feel comfortable and although one may argue they do little harm, I'd argue that they do little good.

We should all be guided by our own values.

[vic smyth]

Although I realize that it is perhaps contrary to certain afterlife evidence, my own personal inclination is to agree with Mac in this particular case. Recently, I have privately reconsidered this debate myself, and I no longer think that it is reasonable to conclude that all coincidences are indeed communications from the deceased. Perhaps the vast majority are but, as Mac said, coincidences seem to be all but impossible to rule out entirely. There are a lot of grey areas in the afterlife field, and it is not usually possible to create a black-and-white rule, such as one saying that all coincidences are signs. I now tend to feel that it is somewhat rash to assume any coincidence to be a spiritual sign without proper evidence and research. I have become open to the fact coincidences may indeed occur without any spiritual help.

It is also important to consider that the mind could subconsciously attract the signs it wishes to see. This is in my own opinion perhaps the most likely explanation for a coincidence, assuming that it is not of spiritual origin. And, there is always the possibility that a particular coincidence is indeed simply a fluke of the universe. I now feel that we, as living humans, cannot accurately make definitive statements about what is and isn't of spiritual nature.

(Disclaimer: I speak only for myself and not as a staff member here. My views do not necessarily align with those of the website's management team as a whole.)

Hi Andrew,

I was going to post a new forum thread entitled "Where's Andrew?" since I noticed that you have not been posting as much as before. But here you are (Hmm, coincidence or serendipity?

Anyway, I read your post with great interest. It seems that your worldview is evolving, a sure sign of growth. I'm happy to see that you are looking at all the evidence with an open mind and open heart. Maybe, if you're inclined, you can share with us some of the evidence that you've come across that has shifted your views. I'm sure we'd all benefit from it.

I've experienced many coincidences and anomalies in my life. Being a skeptic I always look for a rational explanation first. But I've had a handful of things happen to me that, skeptical as I am, I cannot explain away. And so I have a solid conviction that there is much, much more to our lives and the worlds around us than atoms randomly bouncing into each other. And though 97% of all the evidence may be wishful thinking at best, or outright deception at its worst, 3% is Real. And so I keep searching for that 3%. I hope you do too, my friend.

With Lovingkindness (metta),
vic