The Lowest Realms as explained by the book "Life In The World Unseen"

[TheEscapist]

I will agree with Mac and reinforce my post "when the individual is ready to accept help" and ultimately they do. From first hand experience, someone close to us who passed almost 12 months ago and was the epitome of nasty thought and selfish persuits in life, came back to appologise for his behaviour in life having experienced his outer darkness for 12 months. I think you may find that the weakness in character that manifests in negativity is the same weakness that disolves into self preservation after death, forgiveness of one's own shortcomings allows progression.

I agree that when someone is ready they can accept help too. What I was saying is that dying does not instantly change a person into being full of love, especially if they weren't like that right before they died. Hence, you get what you project.

[Fasaga]

I agree that when someone is ready they can accept help too. What I was saying is that dying does not instantly change a person into being full of love, especially if they weren't like that right before they died. Hence, you get what you project.

Totally agree

[Wonderer]

3) The lower realms are horrendous! They are densely populated, and everyone who is there is there by his own tragic choice.
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Each of us much choose to use this time to exhaust whatever tendencies toward materiality we have, and turn resolutely toward striving for spiritual growth... because the alternative is to condemn ourselves to a prolonged and unnecessary exclusion from paradise!

Roberta,
Mikey confirms this. He continues to tell me that souls in the lower realms are there by choice.
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But they do not get a "pass" because they don't see the lack of love.

Thank you Roberta, Carol and Mickey for your insight as always!

It amazes (and saddens) me that the lower realms are densely populated since it's by their own choice. And who wants to go to a horrible place?

But, if I understood well, souls end up in the lower dimensions because their vibrations are low, because they don't have love and forgiveness in their "hearts" and thus they do not fit in summerland or higher levels.

What I mean to say is that since they lack love and forgiveness, maybe have negative thoughts and believes, they are automatically sucked in the lower dimensions until they raise their vibrations or ask for help.

Wow, it's quite sad actually. To be honest, I cannot really put my shoes in theirs as I cannot imagine myself without love and forgiveness, or having evil thoughts.

I think by "pass", Mickey meant that they automatically put themselves in the lower realm since they do not fit in the higher ones.

I wonder if these once were beautiful souls and got tainted along the way. Quite sad.

[Matty Mo]

I have a question and hopefully I didn't miss this inside this thread. What about someone who may have done very bad things while here on earth but it was due to severe mental problems? For example, they say many serial killers lack empathy due to tragic upbringings, mental problems, etc.

With this I'm curious what might happen to those people who to us seemed very evil but may have had very little control over what they did? Obviously the individual(s) would not be thinking with their brain per se but they would still carry low vibrations into the afterlife would they not? With that is it more difficult for them to move to higher levels if they've never known love?

[vic smyth]

...you get what you project.

Not just in the hereafter, but in this earthly life as well. You've just explained one of the mysteries of life in five words. Or as another great person said, "The measure you mete is the measure you'll get".

With Lovingkindness (metta),
vic

[Roberta Grimes]

I have a question and hopefully I didn't miss this inside this thread. What about someone who may have done very bad things while here on earth but it was due to severe mental problems? For example, they say many serial killers lack empathy due to tragic upbringings, mental problems, etc.

With this I'm curious what might happen to those people who to us seemed very evil but may have had very little control over what they did? Obviously the individual(s) would not be thinking with their brain per se but they would still carry low vibrations into the afterlife would they not? With that is it more difficult for them to move to higher levels if they've never known love?

What a great, thoughtful set of questions, dear Matty Mo! There may be no way for us to be certain, but here is what I gather from studying the afterlife evidence:

1) Guides and helpers try to intervene and help those at risk before they go too far wrong. The period right after death is highly individual. And when people's lives have gone seriously off-track, their guides and loved ones try to catch them as they are leaving their bodies or as soon after that as possible, and get them into intensive counseling. There are many descriptions of such attempts in the literature! It doesn't always work - in fact, my guess is that it works less often than it fails - but the fact that they try it with even the most apparently evil people is yet more evidence of how much we are loved.

2) Brain-based mental problems will die with the body. The newly-liberated being is likely to feel confused and perhaps distressed, but not evil - and there are his guides and loved ones to help him and make sure that he doesn't learn to blame himself for whatever his brain pathology drove him to do in his lifetime just ended.

3) Mental problems due to spirit-possession also will die with the body. Two (or more) spirits will be liberated, and the original driver of that body will - again - likely be confused and alarmed but won't initially feel much guilt since the evils done by others using his body were not of the core being's volition. Guides and loved ones can usually help these folks to recover well.

4) Evils done because of a tragic or benighted upbringing also may not be much of a problem, although this is more of a gray area. Each of us is a powerful eternal being who lives many lives as opportunities for spiritual growth, and it is likely that the negative influences suffered by this being were part of a pre-planned set of life-lessons. If they are surmounted, these problems can provide some wonderful growth opportunities! But if they lead to a life in which evil things are done, that being will naturally feel some guilt. Maybe a little; maybe a lot. After all, he chose to take advanced calculus (spiritually speaking) and failed the course! But his guides and loved ones will love-bomb him and try to counsel him toward self-forgiveness.

5) Whether an individual carries low spiritual vibrations into the afterlife will depend upon his ability to forgive himself. It is so important to remember that based upon all the literature, self-forgiveness is the key! Those who have chosen lives of dissolution, selfishness, substance abuse, and general spiritual ignorance may not be able to forgive themselves at all (nor are they likely to want to); but those who have learned how to forgive others can sometimes come to their senses during their life-reviews and choose to begin to turn themselves around.

It is all so completely subjective! We are eternal beings. Even though time is not objectively real, evidence suggests that all of us live many lives, so (probably) all of us have received and given love and forgiveness. It is a muscle that might have atrophied in some of us, but with help after we graduate we can learn to love and forgive once again. Every one of us, no matter what lives we may have led, will always and forever have the power to at any time choose to start on the path toward spiritual growth.

I hope that others will add their thoughts as well!

[Fasaga]

Another great and detailed summation Roberta, you haven't left much room for improvement. I can only repeat that Love and Forgiveness are the key.

[Carol and Mikey]

Great responses. Mikey wants to explain the concept of not getting "a pass" if they do not see their lack of love in their ways.
With the life review, we see and feel how our actions affected others. Lets say the soul has carry over of their "ego" which was strong on earth. They were hurtful to others in their life focusing on power and control in a negative way, but they never thought it as them. It was always the other person's fault when conflicts, etc. arise. They felt they were never wrong in their actions. At the review they "forgive themselves" because they feel they "did no wrong" in their actions. This does not give then a "pass" to a higher area of loving vibration because they "forgave themself" in this situation. Guidance from higher realms gives loving guidance to help them see how their ways were not loving. Teaching is given. The choice now is theirs to accept this teaching sincerely to progress forward. Hopefully this makes sense.
Heaven knows the difference with true mental illness versus truly non-loving actions. Mikey continues to say that nothing goes unnoticed.
Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

[Matty Mo]

Great responses. Mikey wants to explain the concept of not getting "a pass" if they do not see their lack of love in their ways.
With the life review, we see and feel how our actions affected others. Lets say the soul has carry over of their "ego" which was strong on earth. They were hurtful to others in their life focusing on power and control in a negative way, but they never thought it as them. It was always the other person's fault when conflicts, etc. arise. They felt they were never wrong in their actions. At the review they "forgive themselves" because they feel they "did no wrong" in their actions. This does not give then a "pass" to a higher area of loving vibration because they "forgave themself" in this situation. Guidance from higher realms gives loving guidance to help them see how their ways were not loving. Teaching is given. The choice now is theirs to accept this teaching sincerely to progress forward. Hopefully this makes sense.
Heaven knows the difference with true mental illness versus truly non-loving actions. Mikey continues to say that nothing goes unnoticed.
Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

As usual I enjoy you and Roberta's input, thanks.