Suicide

[mac]

I stand corrected as to Spiritualism, dear Mac!

But my two points to our friend Bill remain:

1) If Bill heard differing things from different people who all claimed to be Spiritualists, and hearing their apparently inconsistent views confused or distressed him or made him more skeptical, then it is important for him to understand where all those different beliefs were based in different aspects of what is one consistent body of afterlife evidence. Spiritualism is not at fault here, but rather I would fault those who would take what they have learned in Spiritualism and used it to form personal dogmas which they then shared as facts about Spiritualist beliefs.

2) Beliefs-based systems in general - including the conclusions of modern mainstream science, to the extent that they are based in atheism as a fundamental dogma - simply cannot be trusted as sources of truth. It is possible through extensive research to arrive at an understanding of reality which is based in evidence and not based in anybody's preconceived notions, and only when we get to that point can we vanquish what is otherwise a healthy skepticism!

We're still friends, Roberta!

I can agree with the points you make in 1) above. Listening to people - even some Spiritualists - rather than to teachers and guides can be misleading or confusing because their words may be misconstrued. I don't hold personal opinions on matters spiritual (and hence couldn't give them) and I rarely heed the opinions of others.

You make good points in 2) but I'm not persuaded it's the only way to reach a state of understanding. And researching the wrong material, with apparent but questionable 'evidence', may not lead one to correct conclusions.

[vic smyth]

...My wifes psychiatrist may be mistaken, but he believes that no one could commit suicide unless they were at least temporarily insane...

Hi William,

I don't know whether I would use the word 'insane', but I certainly agree that people who attempt suicide are not making a rational decision. I used to volunteer at a crisis hotline where we often got calls from people who were suicidal. In having long discussions with them the one thing that I understood about those who attempted suicide is that most of them were considering it because after trying talk therapy and medication, they were still in great emotional/mental pain and that suicide was the only way that they believed that they could permanently escape the pain. I had the ultimate compassion for them.

In my worldview I believe that the spiritual realm is filled with beings that are loving, gentle, and non-judgmental. They will accept your wife just the way she is so that she is truly resting in peace from her earthly ordeal.

With Lovingkindness (metta),
vic

[ilovelearninhg]

William, first I want to say I am very sorry for your loss. I know as you search you will find the answers you seek-and your skepticism is understandable. It is hard to sort through all the information out there. I am not a medium, but I believe people's spirits leave their bodies before a moment of pain prior to death-and lots of nde accounts bear this out. Please take comfort in that. God bless you.

[william61]

Thanks again for the replies friends. I've been working some long days and nights helping a friend move house. When I've had time to rest up and regather my thoughts I will post again.
Regards. Bill.

[william61]

There are a couple of issues that I am struggling with. As mentioned earlier my wifes suicide was the final of 4 serious attempts she had made over a period of 5 years. During those 60 months she spent a total of around 4 months recovering physically whilst also being treated psychiatrically. The remainder of those 60 months we lived as normal and happy life together as possible under the circumstances, and I would say that she behaved in a normal rational manner for much of that time. After her release from hospital each time, I did explain to her what a devastatingly traumatic experience I had gone through, and she did understand and was sorry for her actions. Yet knowing this,she repeatedly tortured me by insuring that I would be the one to find her after each attempt.
Whilst I can blame her mental illness for the lack of respect for my own psychological distress, I believe that if she now exists in the spiritual sense, then she is now capable of rational thought and therefore owes me and her daughters something tangible for us to believe that she is in a better place. But we get nothing, Why? after the many thousands of years mankind has been living and dying, one would think the spirit world should have perfected this communication business by now.
The other problem i have relates to the spirit escaping the physical body just prior to experiencing the unbearable pain before death. One memory I have carried for the past 45 years was of coming across a terrible truck accident where the driver was trapped inside the upturned, burning cab of his rig. His agonising screams as he perished have haunted me ever since. Did his spirit stay with the physical body a bit too long?
Bill.

[ilovelearninhg]

William, in the situation with the truck accident, I do believe his spirit separated from the man's body during that time. I believe he had an out of body experience which separated him from the pain, even though it appeared not to be so. His body was going through the motions of pain but I believe "he" was not there. I say this because I've heard of many accounts where this was the case. And in the cases where the person survives they don't remember the pain or even what the incident was. My husband was hit by a car when he was seven while riding his bike and though he wasn't injured enough to require hospitalization he was bleeding a lot and required a lot of stitches. He says he remembers nothing about the actual incident; only riding his bike and ending up at the hospital. I'm so very sorry for all your pain I hate that you or anyone else would go through that. I do know a woman who had a spouse who committed suicide. Her daughter went to a medium and the medium said that the woman's late husband was around both of them. It gave both of them a comforting feeling. Please know that your wife is around and she does appreciate very much what you did for her.

[vic smyth]

Hi William,

Can you forgive your wife? I know that it might be a difficult thing to do. But even if you go through the motions, I think that it would be helpful to her. See if you can get her daughters on board as well. You can ask for spiritual help to do this.

With Lovingkindness (metta),
vic

[mokandi]

William
I have nothing to say other than I'm extremely sorry and I pray you find the peace you are searching for. I'm on the same path. I have had communication. Everyone's experiences are different and for some (Carol) the loss of a child devastating and the communication makes every bit of difference. In my case losing my son had a whole lot of guilt around it. I'm not finding the peace Carol has yet through my sons communication. He hasn't communicated either as Mikey does. I don't have the daily reassurance. It could't have been easy to remain in the relationship for you. Your wife was blessed to have experienced that love.

[Roberta Grimes]

There are a couple of issues that I am struggling with. As mentioned earlier my wifes suicide was the final of 4 serious attempts she had made over a period of 5 years. During those 60 months she spent a total of around 4 months recovering physically whilst also being treated psychiatrically. The remainder of those 60 months we lived as normal and happy life together as possible under the circumstances, and I would say that she behaved in a normal rational manner for much of that time. After her release from hospital each time, I did explain to her what a devastatingly traumatic experience I had gone through, and she did understand and was sorry for her actions. Yet knowing this,she repeatedly tortured me by insuring that I would be the one to find her after each attempt.
Whilst I can blame her mental illness for the lack of respect for my own psychological distress, I believe that if she now exists in the spiritual sense, then she is now capable of rational thought and therefore owes me and her daughters something tangible for us to believe that she is in a better place. But we get nothing, Why? after the many thousands of years mankind has been living and dying, one would think the spirit world should have perfected this communication business by now.
The other problem i have relates to the spirit escaping the physical body just prior to experiencing the unbearable pain before death. One memory I have carried for the past 45 years was of coming across a terrible truck accident where the driver was trapped inside the upturned, burning cab of his rig. His agonising screams as he perished have haunted me ever since. Did his spirit stay with the physical body a bit too long?
Bill.

Dear friend, to answer your last question first, people whose bodies died in circumstances like that driver in his burning cab have told us that they were whisked out of their bodies before the pain started - in vehicle accidents, generally just before the crash - and they watched what happened from above. Some have expressed surprise that the body seemed to be alive and suffering - even fighting and screaming - while they were safely outside and just fine. That truck driver was not in his body, dear friend - please ease your mind about him now! There seems to be a very strong protective mechanism in place which keeps us from experiencing pointless pain that is going to end in death.

Now, as to your complaint that the spirit world doesn't yet have the long-wished-for spirit phone functioning, please understand that they are trying, but communicating across spiritual dimensions is incredibly difficult! I liken it to your Channel Five newsman talking with your Channel Seven newsman while they are both on the air, and no using cell phones. It seems impossible, and it ought to be so, but over millennia our loved ones have managed to come up with some amazing communication methods. They have been trying to invent a spirit telephone for at least the past hundred years - Thomas Edison reportedly is a leader of this project. The dead have been handicapped by a lack of dedicated living co-researchers, but I think it is likely that sometime in this century you will be able to answer a ringing phone and have a chat with a recently-departed loved one!

Now, as to your wife, my concern is that she may be having trouble forgiving herself. Your anger at her is something that she can clearly feel, and until you forgive her from your heart she may not be able to communicate with you at all. Brief personal story: my father was an alcoholic, and his drinking blighted my childhood and my sister's. For twenty years after he died, we heard nothing from him. When I was researching mediums, they would often describe him to a T but say that he was holding back and not coming forward to talk to me. Then last September, within weeks of the twentieth anniversary of his death, my daughter had a reading with a medium and he was at last willing to step forward and say to her, "Please tell your mother and your aunt that I am very sorry." It took him twenty years to do that, and my sister and I had long since forgiven him! Please forgive your wife now, dear William - there is no point in holding on to your anger. Truly forgive her, ask her to forgive you, and then wait - she will communicate when she can.

[mac]

Roberta has made a very sound point about forgiveness. From what you've told us your wife knew the devastating impact on you of her unsuccessful attempts to end her life and my view is that she'll feel your hurt much more intensely than ever she could previously.

As Roberta points out, the stress of the situation for all of you is likely to hinder any attempt she makes to contact you, or you to contact her. That's also the situation for our friend (the father) whose daughter took her life and whom her father found after she did it. He's terribly scarred from the never-ending image he carries in his mind. He knows she's around - I know she's around - but the unresolved emotions puts a barrier between them. She draws near to him but he fights her off. Every individual's case is personal and specific to them. There's no guarantee that what works for one will work for another. A similar outcome may come about but it can't be relied on. Not all mediums are equally gifted and even if they were, communication still could not be guaranteed.

But you can't make yourself forgive her - that can only come naturally. It's a cliché but time can be a healer. Understanding can also help the process. The more one learns, the more one may understand and that can lead to a situation where forgiveness follows. Right now my suggestion is that expecting meaningful communication, if any, via mediumship is far from certain no matter how good the medium. Any other form of contact is probably even less likely.

Perhaps her daughters feel differently from yourself and perhaps your wife might be able to reach them via a medium, if they were open to it? That might then be a stepping-stone for yourself.....