Fraudulent mediums/psychics

[lithuania]

Thought I would post this great clip:
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/paranormal/another-psychic-fail-on-live-tv-t28544.html

Too bad there are so many psychic/medium frauds (perhaps many are just deluded into thinking they have paranormal powers).

One commentor on the site said it well:
Re: Another psychic fail on live TV
#10 by Matthew Shute » Jan 16, 2012 5:15 pm



"Right. I'm sensing that somebody reading this thread, right now, knows somebody, or knows somebody who knows somebody else, with a J name. Yes, a J name. (Or G.) J or G might be the first letter, or not, of the first name... or the second name. Now, this person will be a young person. Possibly an older person. It's getting clearer. I'm sensing this is a male person...? It could be a female. I'll give you the age and gender in a moment, when you tell me the age and gender. Anyway, if this describes somebody you know or knew, or somebody possibly known to somebody else you know, then I'm sure you'll find my psychic display evidence enough of my special powers!"

[lithuania]

http://stopsylvia.com/home/
I despise such people.

[lithuania]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKyzBe0CA2Q

http://www.corporate-review.com/sylviabrownescam.php

http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2010/03/20/sylvia-browne-busted/

[Andrew]

http://stopsylvia.com/home/
I despise such people.

You mean Sylvia? Or are you talking about the perosn who made this anti-Silvia website?

[Andrew]

Don't take this the wrong way, Lithuania, but is there any actual evidence that she is a fake? Remember, a fraudulent medium would someone who is intentionally trying to trick people - not just someone who isn't a medium. They do exist, of course, but what is the proof with this woman.

I have quickly looked through the website you posted, and watched the video and two links in your last post. I have to say that I have found no convincing evidence saying that she is intentionally tricking people. The videos happen to catch her in some mistakes, but there are two problems:

1. Mediums Aren't Always Right:
Sometimes mediums just are wrong. It doesn't mean that they are fake. Some days the communications are stronger and more reliable than others. You must remember, the brain gets in the way of such communications and, if you are not trained enough, it can easily garble them. Now, there is no doubt that she does not possess the skill of someone like John Edward, but that doesn't mean she's fake.

2. The Whole Story isn't Known:
There is a lot that we don't know. For example, that girl who just collapsed and died without cause. We don't know - it is entirely possible that it was a sport injury. A lot of the time, readings do not make sense when we first get them. Revelations at a later date fill in the information gaps. Since we are not in Spirit and don't know exactly what happened, and especially since there is no cause of death, we cannot assume that Sylvia was innaccurate. For example, that list of predictions that she gave - how do we know what will or will not happen 50 years from now? Until that time, we cannot say with certainly whether or not she is accurate. Who would have thought that the internet would exist in its current capacity 40 years ago?

That being said, she could be a fraud, but I see no convincing evidence either way. She certainly isn't the most skillful medium but it would be a wrong to judge her without researching her more deeply.

[lithuania]

I despise people like Sylvia Brown-charlatans.

[lithuania]

http://www.randi.org/jr/121704no.html
On Margolis.

[lithuania]

If this Margolis medium is not a fraud then she is one lousy medium. You be the judge of whether she is a fraud.

[lithuania]

http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/good_day_la/char-margolis-psychic-predictions-20091231
What a joke this woman-no abilities whatsoever. Lousy cold reader too.
Love how mediums when get everything wrong they go back to the old "check it out later and see if it makes sense..." getting them off the hook.

[lithuania]

truthsayer 15 Dec 2002

i have seen char in action on larry king live. she appeared with sylvia brown and james van pragh. i was less than not impressed with her. i thought she was rude, obnoxious and abusive to callers with questions. she would start naming off alphabet letters and ask if this person knew someone with a name starting with b, c, d or e. if the person said no then char would get nasty and accuse the person of not cooperating w/ her. when sylvia or james van pragh tried to answer a question she would drown them out. i don't know what her claim to fame is but it could be that the only place she could get a job as a psychic is outside of the usa b/c ppl here are on to her. miss cleo was a fraud but least she seemed to have some manners in the infomercials.

[Half of Us]

IMHO Sylvia is most definitely a fake and just her arrogance, without the massive evidence that is out there against her, should send warning signs.

[WWE LOVER]

Like my "kitty, kitty, kitty" thread, I am going to expect some backlash here. But Lithuania, bud, I've got your back.

I haven't seen much of Sylvia Browne lately, but I remember watching her on the Montel Williams show a lot. She would tend to have more misses than hits from what I remember, and I can remember one such incident where the parents of someone wanted to know what happened to their kid, and she told them that he was dead and where he could be found. But he was alive. And I can remember many years ago when she did a prediction show, stating that Pope John Paul II would die that year, but it didn't happen until a number of years later. Not to say that she is all misses, because I do remember some hits that she has had. My feeling on her is that, at best, she is a below-average psychic.

As for Char Margolis, I can remember some hits from her (like Kelly Ripa being pregnant), but plenty of misses too. Once again, a below-average medium at best. And the whole thing of running the alphabet to get someone's name is disgusting. This doesn't mean that her and Browne are frauds because from what I have seen they have had enough hits to avoid that title, but too many misses leaves me to question their abilities. And there is a chance they are frauds (I can't say for sure they are, but I think there is a chance of it).

As for John Edward, he's another one who has been under scrutiny. Penn and Teller used to have a show called "Bullshit" where they tried to debunk psychics. I thought their show was one-sided, but they mentioned something (I am going by memory) about how they sent some guys to his show "Crossing Over" where John Edward had a ton of misses, but the misses were edited out and only the hits were shown on the show. Don't know if this is true, but if it is, that's not good.

One guy who I have seen some stuff on and appears to me to be the real deal or quite possibly close to it is Gordon Smith. The debunkers say that he is just an expert, although a great one, on cold reading technique. I don't get that feeling from him. He's got his own channel on youtube, in case anyone wants to check it out.

There are a number of frauds out there. Gotta be careful about who you give your money to when it comes to this.

[Andrew]

As for John Edward, he's another one who has been under scrutiny. Penn and Teller used to have a show called "Bullshit" where they tried to debunk psychics. I thought their show was one-sided, but they mentioned something (I am going by memory) about how they sent some guys to his show "Crossing Over" where John Edward had a ton of misses, but the misses were edited out and only the hits were shown on the show. Don't know if this is true, but if it is, that's not good.

I have no doubt, whatsoever, that John Edward is not only a true medium, but an incredibly well-skilled one. I have done a lot of research on him and find it impossible to doubt his validity. I know that Roberta has been to several of his live shows and is of the same opinion.

As I said above: officially, I currently have no opinion on the validity of Sylvia Browne and Char Margolis. If they are psychics, they are not very good ones - that much is clear. Other than that though, I feel that the evidence I have seen against them is nothing more than speculation - that may [or may not] be because I haven't seen all the evidence yet though. I also agree that many "mediums" are fraudulent, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

Again, I want to say that I am not saying your accusations against these mediums are wrong - merely that I have not sorted through all the evidence, and I don't believe it is possible to make an accurate conclusion based on what I have seen. You may well be right.

[WWE LOVER]

I have no doubt, whatsoever, that John Edward is not only a true medium, but an incredibly well-skilled one. I have done a lot of research on him and find it impossible to doubt his validity. I know that Roberta has been to several of his live shows and is of the same opinion.

But, as I said above: officially, I have no opinion on the validity of Sylvia Browne and Char Margolis. If they are psychics, they are not very good ones - that much is clear. Other than that though, I feel that the evidence I have seen against them is nothing more than speculation - that may (or may not) be because I haven't seen all the evidence yet though. I also agree that many "mediums" are fraudulent, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

I can't speak much to John Edward's abilities. He could be very good for all I know. The show Penn and Teller did is basically a debunker show, so they obviously had an ax to grind. I don't know if the "Crossing Over" episode had a ton of misses that were edited out, but that's what they said. If they are hell-bent on debunking, then saying something like this is what they would do.

As for Char Margolis, isn't Roberta high on her abilities? I think she has mentioned Char as a good medium in some of her posts. We'll have to wait for Roberta to reply to this. Assuming her and Sylvia Browne aren't frauds, I would have to agree that they aren't good. They have had too many hits from what I have seen to be labeled as frauds.

Andrew or anyone else - what's your opinion on Gordon Smith?

[Andrew]

I can't speak much to John Edward's abilities. He could be very good for all I know. The show Penn and Teller did is basically a debunker show, so they obviously had an ax to grind. I don't know if the "Crossing Over" episode had a ton of misses that were edited out, but that's what they said. If they are hell-bent on debunking, then saying something like this is what they would do.

As for Char Margolis, isn't Roberta high on her abilities? I think she has mentioned Char as a good medium in some of her posts. We'll have to wait for Roberta to reply to this. Assuming her and Sylvia Browne aren't frauds, I would have to agree that they aren't good. They have had too many hits from what I have seen to be labeled as frauds.

Andrew or anyone else - what's your opinion on Gordon Smith?

I'm not sure what Roberta thinks of Char Margolis - I haven't spoken to her about this particular medium. Hopefully she will post a reply here. Anyway, I meant that, from the information posted in this thread by Lithuania, Char doesn't seem to be a very accurate medium and could well be a fake. There's far too little evidence here to be sure of anything, but that's what it looks like.

I am not too familiar with Gordon Smith. He seems to be legitimate, but I have never done much research on him. He is a HayHouse author though. I've always found HayHouse authors [that are mediums] to be very spiritual and consistent with what you would expect from legitimate mediums. That doesn't necessarily rule out the fact that Smith is a fraud, but it makes it much less likely, if you ask me.

[Half of Us]

Isn't Sylvia a HayHouse author?

[Andrew]

Isn't Sylvia a HayHouse author?

I just looked at some of her books on Amazon - yes, she is. That make me more optimistic that she is indeed a medium, albeit not a very good one. I'm still not convinced either way though. As I said, being a HayHouse author doesn't prove one's validity, but I have never read an inaccurate or misleading book from HayHouse (and they have sent me quite a few). There is much research to be done if we are to get a definitive answer.

By the way, Half of Us, it was you who mentioned that she was arrogant, right? I just thought I should mention that not all mediums are very spiritual. There are some who think they are, but really aren't. There is one woman I know who is a psychic and has been able to channel some great material from several advanced-level beings. It's all perfectly accurate, and she's not faking it. But, she is one of the nastiest and most petty people I have come across. There are very few such people in the afterlife field, but boy is she one of them! Why? I don't know - you'd think that she would be humbled by the guidance she receives. I guess not though. So, my point is - you never know. Most mediums get the message, but some just think seem to think that it doesn't apply to them.

[Half of Us]

I just looked at some of her books on Amazon - yes, she is. That make me more optimistic that she is indeed a medium, albeit not a very good one. I'm still not convinced either way though. As I said, being a HayHouse author doesn't prove one's validity, but I have never read an inaccurate or misleading book from HayHouse (and they have sent me quite a few). There is much research to be done if we are to get a definitive answer.

By the way, Half of Us, it was you who mentioned that she was arrogant, right? I just thought I should mention that not all mediums are very spiritual. There are some who think they are, but really aren't. There is one woman I know who is a psychic and has been able to channel some great material from several advanced-level beings. It's all perfectly accurate, and she's not faking it. But, she is one of the nastiest and most petty people I have come across. There are very few such people in the afterlife field, but boy is she one of them! Why? I don't know - you'd think that she would be humbled by the guidance she receives. I guess not though. So, my point is - you never know. Most mediums get the message, but some just think seem to think that it doesn't apply to them.

How can a nasty person reach the higher vibration we are told it takes to communicate?

[Andrew]

How can a nasty person reach the higher vibration we are told it takes to communicate?

For all her faults, she is an extremely talented psychic and has been doing this type of work for perhaps 20+ years. I have heard her talk about rituals and prayers that she uses to help ward off any negative energy - that probably helps her somewhat. I think that she was a psychic, and then she let it get to her head, and now she is a jerk really. So, she already knew how to connect and get through. She also has a close connection to the person she channels, so that person could be helping her. Sometimes such bonds can make connections easier.

Also, her gift is clearly a planned one. She was meant to channel the material that she has channeled - for the world to read - just like Carol and Mikey. Maybe she planned this to help humble herself? There must be some lesson in it. It is possible that her guides thought allowing this type of communication would open her eyes to the Greater Reality and make her less petty. Who knows!

[mac]

Oh dear - gramophone time, mac's long playing record being dropped on the turntable....

medium or psychic? A constant battle over definitions. Psychics being described as mediums, either by themselves or others. Mediums sounding like they're just psychic readers....

Sometimes it's deliberate deception when a psychic knows she/he's not interacting with discarnate communicators... But wait! I've heard plenty of folk say psychics and mediums are the same! So why would a practitioner want to disagree assuming she/he actually knows and/or accepts there are differences?

And being really cynical for a moment, what harm has all the vitriol done to the profession of this and all other practitioners who get repeat bookings to appear on TV etc? They'd be daft if they worried about it when they're raking in the dosh!

I use a simple way for dealing with what I don't like either on TV or in books - I won't subscribe to either! I don't rate 'American Idol' or 'Britain's Got Talent' so I don't watch 'em any longer. I don't watch the God channels as they have appalled me on the odd occasion when I have. I don't like the tone of certain newspapers so I don't buy 'em now. ;)


Works for me....

[lithuania]

WWE LOVER, I have no doubt there are real mediums/psyhics out there (Skye being one of them) who have real paranormal abilities.
Sylvia Browne has been shown to be a fraud many times over-I think it is being too kind to simply say such people are bad mediums (when you cannot provide evidential information in your readings time and time again and you get paid for such "service," you are nothing more than a fraud looking to make money, nothing more). You too WWE Lover could get as many hits as this Sylvia person by continually taking guesses.
What is worse, this person provides "intuitive" health diagnoses to people (I think this is what doctors are for)-she is playing with fire when doing health readings given that she has no abilities to discern anything, let alone specific health issues.

http://www.corporatenarc.com/sylviabrownescam.php

Anderson Cooper takes on Sylvia Browne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9hki5Nlyo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts_To4zmEdE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKX5yB-H2tI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPBU-nwBEjw&feature=related


As for this Char person, let's be kind and leave it by saying she is more of a joke than anything else.

John Edwards could also be a fraud given what I read but I don't really know more than that.

[lithuania]

Sylvia Browne reveals she’s a hypocrite as well as a fraud.
By Les, on 13 January, 2006

Sylvia “I Talk To Dead People” Browne has accidentally revealed the secret to her “psychic” abilities and showed she’s a hypocrite in the process. Seems she was on George Noory’s Coast to Coast radio show back on January 3rd when all the drama with the West Virginia miners was taking place. Sylvia was tripped up by the initial false report that the miners had been found alive and had to do some serious backpedaling after the truth came out. There’s a partial transcript in an article at, of all place, Fox News. Emphasis mine:

Browne, who had just announced that John McCain would run against John Kerry in the next presidential campaign, was relieved to hear from Noory that all but one of the miners was alive.

Noory: “Had you been on the program today, would [you] have felt if — because they heard no sound — that this was a very gloomy moment — and that they might have all died?”

Browne: “No. I knew they were going to be found. I hate people that say something after the fact. It’s just like I knew when the pope was dead. Thank God I was on Montel’s show. I said, according to the time, it was 9-something and whatever Rome time was. And I said he was gone, and he was.”

But the situation was fluid, something Browne — ahem! — obviously didn’t sense despite her claims of being able to speak to the dead, among other things. She couldn’t have imagined that within a short time, the entire story of the miners would change completely — and make her look very foolish indeed.

Noory soon announced that there were new reports that all but one of the miners was dead.

Browne — who was still in the studio taking questions from listeners — had to say something. Now she was just riffing: “I don’t think there’s anybody alive, maybe one. How crazy for them to report that they were alive when they weren’t!” Then she added: “I just don’t think they are alive.” She cleared her throat, and there was a deafening pause.

Noory went to a commercial.

Oops.

So will this mean the end of Sylvia’s career as a $700 a session psychic? Ha ha! Don’t be stupid like so many of her fans are. It’s not like being wrong has ever stopped her before. She’ll just do what she did during the radio show and just pretend she never bragged about knowing they’d be found alive and her fans will just pretend right along with her. Just like the folks who are defending James Frey’s book A Million Little Pieces that I talked about the other day. She might lose a few fans, but there’s plenty of folks out there that need to believe she’s the real thing and who feel she’s changed their entire lives. Her message, after all, is a positive (if expensive) one.

[lithuania]

How well did Sylvia Browne do with her predictions for 2007?
By Les, on 1 January, 2008

I’ll give you three guesses. Oh hell, let’s just watch this recap of her predictions on Montel Williams back at the end of 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmNP6wZJg6A
It must really suck to be a charlatan psychic in this day and age what with the Internet and YouTube. You’ll note that on her official website she’s had the good sense to stop posting her lists of predictions because folks like me were digging them up and listing off all the wrong guesses at the end of the year. Apparently Sylvia hasn’t heard of YouTube yet (still you’d think she’d just know about it anyway thanks to her spirit guides) otherwise she might stop making guesses on Montel and just stick to claiming she predicted something after it has already happened. I wonder how many people took her investment advice to heart and lost their shirts this year as a result? Think they learned their lesson?

Yeah, probably not.

[lithuania]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=25015
On Margolis.

[lithuania]

Sylvia Browne's criminal record:
http://www.stopsylvia.com/articles/peoplevsbrown.shtml

[Andrew]

Sylvia Browne's criminal record:
http://www.stopsylvia.com/articles/peoplevsbrown.shtml

Is there any record of these proceedings against her from a legitimate, [preferably governmental] website? Personally, I feel that this website reads like it was written by a disgruntled conspiracy nut. Again, it may be true, but I would like to examine the evidence from more dependable sources.

[Andrew]

I have just looked at all your websites here, Lithuania. There may well be some type of fraud going on, but I feel that these websites are all too obscure and non-professional to be convincing. I will do more research on this and post what I find.

[Half of Us]

Oh dear - gramophone time, mac's long playing record being dropped on the turntable....

medium or psychic? A constant battle over definitions. Psychics being described as mediums, either by themselves or others. Mediums sounding like they're just psychic readers....

Sometimes it's deliberate deception when a psychic knows she/he's not interacting with discarnate communicators... But wait! I've heard plenty of folk say psychics and mediums are the same! So why would a practitioner want to disagree assuming she/he actually knows and/or accepts there are differences?

And being really cynical for a moment, what harm has all the vitriol done to the profession of this and all other practitioners who get repeat bookings to appear on TV etc? They'd be daft if they worried about it when they're raking in the dosh!

I use a simple way for dealing with what I don't like either on TV or in books - I won't subscribe to either! I don't rate 'American Idol' or 'Britain's Got Talent' so I don't watch 'em any longer. I don't watch the God channels as they have appalled me on the odd occasion when I have. I don't like the tone of certain newspapers so I don't buy 'em now. ;)


Works for me....

Mac, if there are true psychics and mediums, the frauds do a great deal of harm to people wanting (neeeding?) to believe. It surprises me, based upon your posts, that you seem content just to look the other way. I do believe enough documented vitriol does diminish the amount of "dosh" they rake in. The grieving are so vulnerable that it is easy to get duped. If I have taken your post in the wrong context, please forgive me but your comments were unexpected. I would have expected you to raise the saber to fight frauds. I am confused.

[lithuania]

Andrew, her criminal charges were posted in a mainstream newspaper (San Francisco Chronicle article, June 6th, 1992).
One should not be an apologist for frauds, flakes and the mentally unstable who think they have paranormal powers when they really don't.

[lithuania]

Here is your "governmental" website Andrew:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_People_vs_Sylvia_Browne

[lithuania]

Janet McDonald, an author of books for young adults, describes her experience receiving a psychic reading via phone, for which she paid Browne $700. Browne predicted a "really long life" for McDonald, who died of cancer at 53 just over four years later.[32][33]

^ McDonald, Janet (January 8, 2003). "Crystal bawl: I blew $700 on a famous psychic whose best talent was predicting my gullibility." Salon.com
^ Whelan, Debra Lau (April 16, 2007). "Young Adult Author Janet McDonald Dies at 53". School Library Journal. Accessed January 4, 2008.

[lithuania]

A detailed three-year study of her predictions about missing persons and murder cases, by Ryan Shaffer and Agatha Jadwiszczok for the Skeptical Inquirer, has found that despite her repeated claims to be more than 85% correct, "Browne has not even been mostly correct in a single case." The study's authors collected Browne's televised statements about 115 cases and compared them with newspaper reports that are believed to be factual. They found that in 25 cases where the actual outcome is known, she was completely wrong in every one; and in the rest, where the final outcome is unknown, her predictions could not be substantiated. The study indicates that the media outlets that repeatedly promote Browne's work have no visible concern about whether she is untrustworthy or harms people.[37]
Ryan Shaffer and Agatha Jadwiszczok. "Psychic defective: Sylvia Browne's history of failure". Skeptical Inquirer. Volume 34.2, March/April 2010

[Roberta Grimes]

WWE LOVER, I have no doubt there are real mediums/psyhics out there (Skye being one of them) who have real paranormal abilities.
Sylvia Browne has been shown to be a fraud many times over-I think it is being too kind to simply say such people are bad mediums (when you cannot provide evidential information in your readings time and time again and you get paid for such "service," you are nothing more than a fraud looking to make money, nothing more). You too WWE Lover could get as many hits as this Sylvia person by continually taking guesses.
What is worse, this person provides "intuitive" health diagnoses to people (I think this is what doctors are for)-she is playing with fire when doing health readings given that she has no abilities to discern anything, let alone specific health issues.

http://www.corporatenarc.com/sylviabrownescam.php

Anderson Cooper takes on Sylvia Browne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9hki5Nlyo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts_To4zmEdE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKX5yB-H2tI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPBU-nwBEjw&feature=related


As for this Char person, let's be kind and leave it by saying she is more of a joke than anything else.

John Edwards could also be a fraud given what I read but I don't really know more than that.

Dear friend, John Edward is a very good genuine medium. Char Margolis is one as well. John Edward was tested in the laboratory by Gary Schwartz (Read Schwartz's The Afterlife Experiments), and he recommends Char Margolis to his own family. John Edward is no longer available for private readings, but Char Margolis still is (although she is expensive). A much-beloved family member of mine was having trouble with some losses, so last year I gave him readings with five or six highly-recommended mediums. He is skeptical by nature, and he was pretty ruthless about some of them! But Char Margolis blew him away - she was so accurate and so detailed in bringing loved ones through to him that I gave him a second reading with her for Christmas (which also was excellent).

It is very important always to remember that everything is energy. And it is extremely difficult for anyone to communicate across the different energy levels - it's a wonder that it can happen at all. Think of your Channel 5 newsman trying to communicate with your Channel 7 newsman, live and on the air, without a telephone, and you get some sense of how very hard it is. For them, of course, it is impossible! But fortunately, our dead are aware of us and able to feel our emotions, and they have been so eager to communicate their love to us that over the millennia they have developed the ability to communicate mentally with lower energy levels and put their transmitted thoughts into our minds. I think it is likely deliberate that some people have chosen to be born with the ability to perceive those thoughts especially well, but even they have to work very hard at doing it dependably and in detail. Becoming a good medium takes years and decades of dedicated, open-minded work! So although we all seem to have this latent ability at some level, very few of us have really developed it - and even for those who are very good mediums, there are good days and bad days. There are people they can read, and people they cannot read.

Please remember that grief, hostility, anger, extreme skepticism, and other negative emotions can absolutely block communications. In the case of my loved one, all the mediums who read him were proven to be genuine or I would not have hired them, but his skepticism and his anxiety about death were so strong that he seems to have unwillingly blocked everyone but Char Margolis from successfully reading him.

Remember, too, that debunkers (like Randi) have staked their reputations and their whole sense of worth on their need to prove that communication is not real, which means that their work in this area must be dismissed as entirely useless. Their negative energies are an absolute bar to their ever doing anything worthwhile. Unfortunately!

[lithuania]

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/john_edward_hustling_the_bereaved/
John Edwards.

[lithuania]

Roberta, if Char is such a great medium why do these videos show her complete ineptitude at being able to provide any evidence for sitters?

I can't say anything about Edwards as have not followed him-I just posted a link I found about him below.

[Andrew]

Here is your "governmental" website Andrew:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_People_vs_Sylvia_Browne

Lithuania, this isn't a governmental website - it's a part of Wikipedia. Anyone can edit it just by creating an account.

I'll admit: it's likely that the charges of fraud are true, but I would will like to see a more professional, reliable website report them. It's also important to note that the government does not accept the fact that mediums exist, so any medium could easily be accused of fraud.

[lithuania]

Roberta, this will be my last post on Char.
The videos show her to have no paranormal abilities. Anyone with real mediumship capabilities will often be able to give full first names.

Char spends more time asking people questions than providing evidence because she uses cold reading to obtain her info (as clearly evidenced from the videos). If she had any real abilities she would not need to play the alphabet soup guessing game (do souls run around the afterlife with first letters of their names emblazoned on their foreheads?).

I am not saying Randi is correct-he also does not KNOW whether there is an afterlife-but at least he is not gullible, like many who desperately want to believe-at all costs, including financial. He does a decent job of ripping apart frauds like Sylvia Browne and others.

[Andrew]

Roberta, if Char is such a great medium why do these videos show her complete ineptitude at being able to provide any evidence for sitters?

I can't say anything about Edwards as have not followed him-I just posted a link I found about him below.

Think of it this way: open-heart surgery is useful and does save lives, right? But still, some people die from it. Getting a reading from a medium is the same as having any other job performed - sometimes it just doesn't work, for various reasons. It seems as though these videos are just a collection of Char's worst connections, rather than an objective analysis at her skill. People have bad days at every job. With mediums, it could also be the client that is blocking the connection subconsciously. Sometimes a connection is just not meant to be - this happens sometimes as well. There are many reasons why a good medium could be unsuccessful at times, some of which the medium has no control over.

It's important to remain openminded and not condemn someone as a charlatan, unless there is sufficient, reliable proof - from researchers who are open to the existence of mediums. I'm sorry but none of the links you've posted do that. There is no proof that the people who created the conversations, comments, and posts have any idea what they're talking about. That is why I still remain unconvinced when it comes to Sylvia.

I know that John Edward is legitimate and I will trust Roberta's opinion of Char.

[lithuania]

Andrew, the info. was taken from United States District Court case documents and included in the wiki page.


She was accused of financial fraud, not psychic fraud, so your statement below is irrelevant:
"It's also important to note that the government does not accept the fact that mediums exist, so any medium could easily be accused of fraud."
The government did not charge her with financial fraud because she is a fraud as a medium, they charged her with financial fraud because she committed a crime.

[Roberta Grimes]

Roberta, if Char is such a great medium why do these videos show her complete ineptitude at being able to provide any evidence for sitters?

I can't say anything about Edwards as have not followed him-I just posted a link I found about him below.

I don't know. You can make videos do anything, can't you? Are your videos from a skeptic's website? Then I would gather that is your best answer as to why they show her in a bad light. Or it might be the fact that sometimes the energies are wrong and act as a barrier to communication, especially if the sitter is a skeptic. Dear friend, once you have begun to understand what the greater reality actually is, then you have outgrown your need for skeptics and their work, and in fact they are only going to confuse you! Most of them are conducting their experiments with mud all over their instruments, so whatever they produce will inevitably be garbage.

No medium can read just anybody successfully, as all the good ones are eager to admit. I have talked with a lot of them, and they say that some sitters feel like a blank wall - they get nothin'. But the fact that Char Margolis aced two readings for someone who was impervious to at least four other proven mediums makes her a star in my personal book ;-)!

[WWE LOVER]

If she had any real abilities she would not need to play the alphabet soup guessing game.

But it's a fun game, so let's play it right now...

Hey lithuania, I am getting a message from someone from your past. He's dead. I think his name begins with an A or a B. No? How about a C or a D or an E? F? G? H,I,J,K,L,M,N,O,P? Q,R,S,T,U,V,W,X,Y,Z?

Now I know my ABCs, next time won't you sing with me!

[WWE LOVER]

I don't know. You can make videos do anything, can't you? Are your videos from a skeptic's website? Then I would gather that is your best answer as to why they show her in a bad light. Or it might be the fact that sometimes the energies are wrong and act as a barrier to communication, especially if the sitter is a skeptic. Dear friend, once you have begun to understand what the greater reality actually is, then you have outgrown your need for skeptics and their work, and in fact they are only going to confuse you! Most of them are conducting their experiments with mud all over their instruments, so whatever they produce will inevitably be garbage.

No medium can read just anybody successfully, as all the good ones are eager to admit. I have talked with a lot of them, and they say that some sitters feel like a blank wall - they get nothin'. But the fact that Char Margolis aced two readings for someone who was impervious to at least four other proven mediums makes her a star in my personal book ;-)!

We all go by what we see as our personal experience. It's tough for me to say she is a fraud because I have seen enough hits from her. But just too many misses makes me question her abilities.

And like lithuania, I can't stand the whole alphabet soup thing either. In my opinion, it's a big red flag.

[lithuania]

OK Andrew, the side showing Char to have no paranormal abilities has posted videos to this effect. Please post videos or other evidence that we can all review so as to undertake an objective analysis of her mediumship skills. I will await the posting of your evidence.


"There is no proof that the people who created the conversations, comments, and posts have any idea what they're talking about. That is why I still remain unconvinced when it comes to Sylvia."

I could just as easily say the same thing about you when it comes to your proclamation of their being an afterlife:
There is no proof that the people who created this site have any idea what they're talking about. That is why I still remain unconvinced when it comes to there being an afterlife.

[Andrew]

Roberta, this will be my last post on Char.
The videos show her to have no paranormal abilities. Anyone with real mediumship capabilities will often be able to give full first names.

Char spends more time asking people questions than providing evidence because she uses cold reading to obtain her info (as clearly evidenced from the videos). If she had any real abilities she would not need to play the alphabet soup guessing game (do souls run around the afterlife with first letters of their names emblazoned on their foreheads?).

I am not saying Randi is correct-he also does not KNOW whether there is an afterlife-but at least he is not gullible, like many who desperately want to believe-at all costs, including financial. He does a decent job of ripping apart frauds like Sylvia Browne and others.

I'm sorry to be a little blunt here, but I have interviewed quite a few mediums, including the ones on my radio show, and done research on dozens of others. The following is what I have learned from my research.

The first sentence that I bolded in your post, about giving full names, is a majorly inaccurate generalization. It all depends on how well-honed the medium's abilities are. I know of several world famous mediums who cannot give full first names right away. Many mediums say that the messages they hear form Spirit (if they communicate through hearing) sound muffled and indistinct. It takes years of effort and practice to be able to get a full first name on your first try. Not everyone has that ability.

Things cannot be so black and white. A successful reading depends on the level of ability the medium has, how much practice has gone into developing his skills, the connection in question, the client's spiritual welfare, and the method through which the medium receives messages.

[lithuania]

Videos are from youtube. Do you consider youtube to be a skeptic website??

[lithuania]

Yes, mediums cannot always provide first names. But this Char joke could not even provide one correct first name in any of her posted videos-all she provided was her alphabet soup. I guess those were her off days, you know, like when heart surgeons on their off days end up killing their patients because of a lack of skill.

[Andrew]

Andrew, the info. was taken from United States District Court case documents and included in the wiki page.


She was accused of financial fraud, not psychic fraud, so your statement below is irrelevant:
"It's also important to note that the government does not accept the fact that mediums exist, so any medium could easily be accused of fraud."
The government did not charge her with financial fraud because she is a fraud as a medium, they charged her with financial fraud because she committed a crime.

Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying!

But, how do we know that the information on Wikipedia is accurate if we don't have access to the actual USDC documents? Do you see what I am saying, the facts from the case could have been altered for all we know. I have seen many large inaccuracies on Wikipedia throughout the years and that leads me to exclude it as a source.

[Andrew]

Videos are from youtube. Do you consider youtube to be a skeptic website??

Again Lithuania, it is a website where anyone can post content! There is no assurance that this content is reliable. And, as Roberta says above, you can easily make a convincing video out of anything - with a little effort. How do you know that it's not some 10 year old kid, or devout baptist minister posting those videos?

[Roberta Grimes]

Oy! Lithuania, dear wonderful friend, as the great late-nineteenth-century pioneering researcher in this field, William James, so famously said: "All that is needed to disprove the theory that all crows are black is to find only one white crow." You have some YouTube videos which came from who-known-where. All black crows. All suggesting that Char Margolis is a fake. But I have spotted two dazzling white crows on my own front lawn which loudly sing to me that she is not a fake. (Can crows sing? Never mind.) Our evidence together suggests that she is a genuine medium who is not always successful, and I am content to rest with that. I am just grateful that in the case of someone I love very much she was able to provide solid evidence of an afterlife when he badly needed it, and several others could not provide it.

[WWE LOVER]

Hey, this thread is going well. The replies are coming fast and furious.

[lithuania]

Andrew, the court documents are true because if they were not, Browne's lawyer would have sued the pant's off the person who posted them.
Also, the San Francisco newspaper would also have been sued for liable if their story about Browne being convicted of financial fraud was not true.

Roberta is a lawyer so she understands all this.

[lithuania]

WWE LOVER, do you have any more letters to throw my way? I don't think you used up the alphabet yet. It must be a bad energy day for you today.

[lithuania]

Roberta, a broken clock is right once every 24 hrs. No doubt you too would be able to provide evidence to a grief stricken person if you did enough cold readings (I am sure you know a little about the field of statistics).

[Roberta Grimes]

Roberta is a lawyer so she understands all this.

Heh... you assume rather a lot ;-)!

[WWE LOVER]

WWE LOVER, do you have any more letters to throw my way? I don't think you used up the alphabet yet. It must be a bad energy day for you today.

Sorry dawg, but I'm all lettered out!

[Andrew]

OK Andrew, the side showing Char to have no paranormal abilities has posted videos to this effect. Please post videos or other evidence that we can all review so as to undertake an objective analysis of her mediumship skills. I will await the posting of your evidence.


"There is no proof that the people who created the conversations, comments, and posts have any idea what they're talking about. That is why I still remain unconvinced when it comes to Sylvia."

I could just as easily say the same thing about you when it comes to your proclamation of their being an afterlife:
There is no proof that the people who created this site have any idea what they're talking about. That is why I still remain unconvinced when it comes to there being an afterlife.

Dear Lithuania, I concur with what Roberta has said about the crows above. Her white crows are good enough for me. Personally, I don't have to go searching for videos of Char. Also, it is important to note that I never said I had evidence proving that Char was a genuine medium, I said that the evidence you proposed failed to prove that she wasn't. Two different things. Just as you never want to assume a medium is the real deal, you never want to assume that they are not either.

As for us, we have spent years (or decades, in Roberta's case) researching the afterlife. What we have found is perfectly consistent, despite the diverse sources from which it comes. I can provide you with a list of all the consistent books, [reputable] websites, and documentaries that I have encountered in my research if you wish. It's not just us - there is a growing worldwide group of people this is realizing this information.

[lithuania]

Andrew, the videos are copied from TV shows like CNN, Montel Williams, etc. so this has nothing to do with the messenger youtube (content provider), but everything do to do with the person being implicated here. You sound like quite the apologist-sorry to be so blunt.

[Roberta Grimes]

Roberta, a broken clock is right once every 24 hrs. No doubt you too would be able to provide evidence to a grief stricken person if you did enough cold readings (I am sure you know a little about the field of statistics).

Peace, dear friend! We are not talking about anything so simple as clocks here, whether stopped or otherwise. I don't ask you to believe that anyone is a genuine medium - that is something that you must decide for yourself. But the many names, the details, and the feel of those readings could not have been produced but by genuine mediumship (including our first communication from my own father in the whole 20 years since his death). You cannot ever convince me that Char Margolis is not for real. No one who could do that even once is anything less than genuine in my book! But you may believe as you like ... ;-).

[Andrew]

Andrew, the court documents are true because if they were not, Browne's lawyer would have sued the pant's off the person who posted them.
Also, the San Francisco newspaper would also have been sued for liable if their story about Browne being convicted of financial fraud was not true.

Roberta is a lawyer so she understands all this.

I admitted, already, that the court case most likely did occur - I don't doubt that. But, you are getting your facts from it from Wikipedia. How do you know that the actual facts about the court case on Wikipedia are true? Wikipedia is a free community full of people - someone could have easily edited the content. In their user agreement, it says that they are not liable for any posted content, since anyone could change it.

[lithuania]

My point was that you did not study anything about Sylvia Browne so your saying that you remain unconvinced about her being a fraud is like me doing no research on afterlife possibilities and saying that you and Roberta have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the afterlife. I am open minded to the possibility of their being an afterlife based on my research (no personal experiences though). You however have done no research on Sylvia Browne so for you to say that there is no evidence to show that she is a fraud is laughable. An apologist like yourself would always just claim that her being unable to show evidence of communicating with the deceased or making accurate psychic predictions beyond what chance would allow is no not proof of her being a fraud or having no paranormal powers. You are no different from Randi (both very rigid in your views-all black or white and nothing in between).

[Andrew]

Andrew, the videos are copied from TV shows like CNN, Montel Williams, etc. so this has nothing to do with the messenger youtube (content provider), but everything do to do with the person being implicated here. You sound like quite the apologist-sorry to be so blunt.

Well, firstly, that means that the actual human users on YouTube are illegally posting TV material. I just want to make that perfectly clear.

Secondly, how do we know that the videos are unedited? I'm not saying that they are, but YouTube is far from the ideal sample for scientific research and inquiry.

[Andrew]

My point was that you did not study anything about Sylvia Browne so your saying that you remain unconvinced about her being a fraud is like me doing no research on afterlife possibilities and saying that you and Roberta have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the afterlife. I am open minded to the possibility of their being an afterlife based on my research (no personal experiences though). You however have done no research on Sylvia Browne so for you to say that there is no evidence to show that she is a fraud is laughable. An apologist like yourself would always just claim that her being unable to show evidence of communicating with the deceased or making accurate psychic predictions beyond what chance would allow is no not proof of her being a fraud or having no paranormal powers. You are no different from Randi (both very rigid in your views-all black or white and nothing in between).

You can think this is if you want - that's up to you, but it doesn't make sense, logically speaking. I have done no research on Browne, I admit that. So, I have said that I remain unconvinced. That is not the same as you having done no research on the afterlife and concluding that Roberta and I don't know what we're talking about. I am not making an uneducated, conclusive judgment, you are - so there is a big difference. Also, Roberta and I can point you towards reliable evidence from actual scientific sources, but you have not been able to show us anything unquestionably authentic against Sylva, from a reputable source.

If I were seeing things in black and white, my friend, then why wouldn't I say that Browne is a medium? I am saying that I don't know whether or not she is because the evidence is inconclusive. Randi, on the other hand, is raging against her as a definite fraud. I reserve judgement until I have seen enough, reliable evidence to convince me.

[lithuania]

http://www.smugbaldy.com/2007/01/24/how-well-did-sylvia-browne-do-with-her-2006-predictions/

The evidence speaks for itself Andrew.

BTW, let's see if we can get 1000 hits for this thread.

Sylvia Browne 2006 predictions:
Analysis:

Here we see 32 testable predictions for 2006, of which which Sylvia Browne got 3 correct, for a raw percentage of 9.4% correct (3 out of 32). Notice, however, calculating her accuracy isn’t this simple. We also need to consider the positive and negative predictions she made, and determine if the events that were predicted to occur (or to NOT occur) did or did not occur.

In addition, we need to consider the situations in which events occurred that Sylvia did not predict. Of the 32 predictions, 30 of them were positive predictions, meaning that she predicted something would happen, and the remaining 2 predictions were negative, meaning that she predicted that something would not happen (the US would Not invade Syria, for example). If you examine each of the 30 positive predictions, you will see that, in 29 of those cases, something other than what Sylvia predicted occurred. So. to really examine her superpower, we have to look at her positive and negative predictions against their respective positive and negative outcomes.

To do this, we break the data out into a 2X2 contingency table:
Event Observed Event Not Observed Totals
Event Predicted 1 29 30
Event Not Predicted 29 2 31
Totals 30 31 61

Using the Key below, we can calculate some verification statistics:

(a+d)/n Percent Correct (PC) = 4.9%

This one is very simple – what percentage of positively predicted events actually occurred and predicted non-events that actually didn’t occur. Here’s Sylvia’s batting roughly one in twenty.

a/(a+c) Hit rate = true positive fraction = sensitivity = 3.3%

As a superhero, Sylvia Browne’s psychic sensitivity actually limps in at an impotent 3.3%. This number represents the percent of times that she positively predicted an event that actually occurred.

b/(b+d) False alarm rate = 1- specificity = 96.7%

The false alarm rate represents the percentage of phony predictions. This has the same meaning as a false alarm in the real world – someone who trips a false fire alarm is claiming there’s an emergency when one doesn’t actually exist. For Sylvia Browne’s 2006 predictions, the term false alarm should stick in your mind.

Key:
Event Observed Event Not Observed Totals
Event Predicted A B A+B
Event Not Predicted C D C+D
Totals A+C B+D N

Update and Corrections:

One perceptive reader was kind enough to check my math and point out some errors that I made above. The main error was that I doubled up the number of predictions so the total N was 61. This should have been 32. Also, some of the calculations are incorrect. Below is what I think is the correct picture:

Sylvia Browne’s 2006 Predictions Analysis
No. of In-Fact Events

1

31

Event Type

Event Occurred

Event Did Not Occur
Prediction Type
Event Predicted to Occur

1

29
Event Not Predicted to Occur

0

2






p(Hit) = 0.50

p(FA) = 0.935
P(correct)

0.094


Notes:

This analysis was conducted using the data I referenced above and a signal detection calculator found here, which includes a correction for extreme values of hits and false alarms (0 or 1.0).

The adjusted P(Hit) value of .5 (that’s 50%) hits is artificially high due to the very small number (1) of events that were both predicted and actually occurred. Note that over 90% of the time in this set of predictions, Sylvia predicted something that did not actually come to pass – which is reflected in the high false alarm rate.

As stated before, the term false alarm should stick in your mind when considering Sylvia Browne’s predictions.

[Andrew]

http://www.smugbaldy.com/2007/01/24/how-well-did-sylvia-browne-do-with-her-2006-predictions/

The evidence speaks for itself Andrew.

BTW, let's see if we can get 1000 hits for this thread.

Sylvia Browne 2006 predictions:
Analysis:

Here we see 32 testable predictions for 2006, of which which Sylvia Browne got 3 correct, for a raw percentage of 9.4% correct (3 out of 32). Notice, however, calculating her accuracy isn’t this simple. We also need to consider the positive and negative predictions she made, and determine if the events that were predicted to occur (or to NOT occur) did or did not occur.

In addition, we need to consider the situations in which events occurred that Sylvia did not predict. Of the 32 predictions, 30 of them were positive predictions, meaning that she predicted something would happen, and the remaining 2 predictions were negative, meaning that she predicted that something would not happen (the US would Not invade Syria, for example). If you examine each of the 30 positive predictions, you will see that, in 29 of those cases, something other than what Sylvia predicted occurred. So. to really examine her superpower, we have to look at her positive and negative predictions against their respective positive and negative outcomes.

To do this, we break the data out into a 2X2 contingency table:
Event Observed Event Not Observed Totals
Event Predicted 1 29 30
Event Not Predicted 29 2 31
Totals 30 31 61

Using the Key below, we can calculate some verification statistics:

(a+d)/n Percent Correct (PC) = 4.9%

This one is very simple – what percentage of positively predicted events actually occurred and predicted non-events that actually didn’t occur. Here’s Sylvia’s batting roughly one in twenty.

a/(a+c) Hit rate = true positive fraction = sensitivity = 3.3%

As a superhero, Sylvia Browne’s psychic sensitivity actually limps in at an impotent 3.3%. This number represents the percent of times that she positively predicted an event that actually occurred.

b/(b+d) False alarm rate = 1- specificity = 96.7%

The false alarm rate represents the percentage of phony predictions. This has the same meaning as a false alarm in the real world – someone who trips a false fire alarm is claiming there’s an emergency when one doesn’t actually exist. For Sylvia Browne’s 2006 predictions, the term false alarm should stick in your mind.

Key:
Event Observed Event Not Observed Totals
Event Predicted A B A+B
Event Not Predicted C D C+D
Totals A+C B+D N

Update and Corrections:

One perceptive reader was kind enough to check my math and point out some errors that I made above. The main error was that I doubled up the number of predictions so the total N was 61. This should have been 32. Also, some of the calculations are incorrect. Below is what I think is the correct picture:

Sylvia Browne’s 2006 Predictions Analysis
No. of In-Fact Events

1

31

Event Type

Event Occurred

Event Did Not Occur
Prediction Type
Event Predicted to Occur

1

29
Event Not Predicted to Occur

0

2






p(Hit) = 0.50

p(FA) = 0.935
P(correct)

0.094


Notes:

This analysis was conducted using the data I referenced above and a signal detection calculator found here, which includes a correction for extreme values of hits and false alarms (0 or 1.0).

The adjusted P(Hit) value of .5 (that’s 50%) hits is artificially high due to the very small number (1) of events that were both predicted and actually occurred. Note that over 90% of the time in this set of predictions, Sylvia predicted something that did not actually come to pass – which is reflected in the high false alarm rate.

As stated before, the term false alarm should stick in your mind when considering Sylvia Browne’s predictions.

Firstly, predictions of the future comes from psychic abilities, not mediumistic abilities. So, at worst, this proves that she is a lousy psychic. It doesn't prove anything about her ability to communicate with the afterlife - that's a completely different area of skill. It would be like saying someone who couldn't speak, because they don't know how to read. The two skills are connected, but don't depend on each other necessarily. Mediums get messages through their guides to other spirits and back. Psychics access their higher self for information. A lot of people can do both.

Secondly, this doesn't prove that she is a fake at all - just that she is not good at what she does psychically. You see what I mean? Clearly, she's not the person to go for future guidance, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she's a fraud.

I'm sorry, you'll gave to forgive me. I have a highly skeptical nature, on both sides of the argument. I like to reserve judgment until I seen both sides of the evidence. That being said, I am not saying that she is legitimate. I am saying that there is insufficient evidence to prove whether or not she is legitimate. There's a big difference.

[Half of Us]

If you take a great deal of money and brag you have above 85% positive results and cannot deliver - you are a fraud.

[Andrew]

If you take a great deal of money and brag you have above 85% positive results and cannot deliver - you are a fraud.

I'm sorry, but that really is an inaccurate generalization. I do know legitimate mediums that are like that You're right - there aren't many, but they do exist unfortunately. These people have somewhat developed spiritual abilities, but get way too caught up in the material world. It really does happen. To me, this is what Mac would call a "making things fit" situation.

[mac]

Roberta, a broken clock is right once every 24 hrs. No doubt you too would be able to provide evidence to a grief stricken person if you did enough cold readings (I am sure you know a little about the field of statistics).

I had believed it would be right twice every twenty four hours..... eg 6 o'clock morning, 6 o'clock evening etc ;)

Have I got that wrong too?

[lithuania]

You are indeed correct Mac-you obviously have psychic abilities that I don't have.

[Half of Us]

I'm sorry, but that really is an inaccurate generalization. I do know legitimate mediums that are like that You're right - there aren't many, but they do exist unfortunately. These people have somewhat developed spiritual abilities, but get way too caught up in the material world. It really does happen. To me, this is what Mac would call a "making things fit" situation.

It can only be a generalization if you are referring to a specific person or group.

If you take a great deal of money and brag you have 85% positive results and cannot deliver - you are a fraud.

[Andrew]

It can only be a generalization if you are referring to a specific person or group.

If you take a great deal of money and brag you have 85% positive results and cannot deliver - you are a fraud.

Half of Us, you are referring to a group here. The group is mediums that have a lot of money and cannot deliver the results they promise. This is a generalization and is not accurate at all. Most of the time, as we have said elsewhere, a bad reading is not the medium's fault at all. Now, people who brag about results they don't have aren't exactly model citizens, but it has nothing to do with whether or not they fakes - it has to do with your advertising honestly. Two totally different things.

[mac]

Mac, if there are true psychics and mediums, the frauds do a great deal of harm to people wanting (neeeding?) to believe. It surprises me, based upon your posts, that you seem content just to look the other way. I do believe enough documented vitriol does diminish the amount of "dosh" they rake in. The grieving are so vulnerable that it is easy to get duped. If I have taken your post in the wrong context, please forgive me but your comments were unexpected. I would have expected you to raise the saber to fight frauds. I am confused.

I plead guilty to being flippant in this posting but there was a huge amount of animosity evident towards the celebrity under discussion. (attack?)

What mac feels about fraudulent practitioners is less important (in my estimation) than the points he raised viz "Oh dear - gramophone time, mac's long playing record being dropped on the turntable....medium or psychic? A constant battle over definitions. Psychics being described as mediums, either by themselves or others. Mediums sounding like they're just psychic readers....
Sometimes it's deliberate deception when a psychic knows she/he's not interacting with discarnate communicators... But wait! I've heard plenty of folk say psychics and mediums are the same!"

A practitioner may have a significant level of competency as a psychic (not hard!) but no competency at all as a medium (much more demanding). If celebrity 'x' is described as a medium, but performs as a psychic, is it fair to attack her/his 'mediumship'? But if that same celebrity claims to be a medium, might one also wish to understand what she/he means by being a medium?

I don't know much but I do know that there's great confusion on these points, even amongst those who might be expected to understand. Once our own house has been put in order there may be justification in challenging public practitioners about what they do - or fail to do?

[mac]

You are indeed correct Mac-you obviously have psychic abilities that I don't have.

Too kind....;)

[WWE LOVER]

What mac feels about fraudulent practitioners is less important (in my estimation) than the points he raised

I don't know about the rest of you, but I get a little nervous around people who refer to themselves in the third person.

I have no psychic abilities, but my spidy sense is tingling. :eek:

[Andrew]

I plead guilty to being flippant in this posting but there was a huge amount of animosity evident towards the celebrity under discussion. (attack?)

What mac feels about fraudulent practitioners is less important (in my estimation) than the points he raised viz "Oh dear - gramophone time, mac's long playing record being dropped on the turntable....medium or psychic? A constant battle over definitions. Psychics being described as mediums, either by themselves or others. Mediums sounding like they're just psychic readers....
Sometimes it's deliberate deception when a psychic knows she/he's not interacting with discarnate communicators... But wait! I've heard plenty of folk say psychics and mediums are the same!"

A practitioner may have a significant level of competency as a psychic (not hard!) but no competency at all as a medium (much more demanding). If celebrity 'x' is described as a medium, but performs as a psychic, is it fair to attack her/his 'mediumship'? But if that same celebrity claims to be a medium, might one also wish to understand what she/he means by being a medium?

I don't know much but I do know that there's great confusion on these points, even amongst those who might be expected to understand. Once our own house has been put in order there may be justification in challenging public practitioners about what they do - or fail to do?

Hi Mac! I would venture to say that this celebrity is blatantly under attack here. There has been some borderline-hateful language against her, which worries me. You're definitely right - there's a lot of animosity towards her here, which isn't right, even if she is a fraud.

Your post here touches upon what I was trying to explain to Lithuania earlier - some of the "evidence" points to Sylvia being a lousy psychic, but doesn't actually say anything about her mediumistic abilities. You're right: the distinction between the two are important. The general public doesn't seem to understand the difference in my experience. The term "psychic medium" doesn't help.

[lithuania]

You are correct once again Mac. So in response I clarify by way of stating the following: Sylvia Brown has no paranormal psychic NOR mediumship abilities and she is a downright immoral person (we have her criminal conviction to prove definitively the latter statement).

[mac]

"Firstly, predictions of the future comes from psychic abilities, not mediumistic abilities. So, at worst, this proves that she is a lousy psychic. It doesn't prove anything about her ability to communicate with the afterlife - that's a completely different area of skill. It would be like saying someone who couldn't speak, because they don't know how to read. The two skills are connected, but don't depend on each other necessarily. Mediums get messages through their guides to other spirits and back. Psychics access their higher self for information. A lot of people can do both.

Secondly, this doesn't prove that she is a fake at all - just that she is not good at what she does psychically. You see what I mean? Clearly, she's not the person to go for future guidance, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she's a fraud. "

Couldn't let these claims go without comment....;)

First point. ANYONE can predict the future - it requires neither psychic nor mediumistic attributes. It doesn't mean predictions will turn out to be correct but neither are all predictions by psychics - or mediums! And both may be found trying....

Re mediums and psychics I've already commented here and in other threads, today and on other occasions.... There are varying definitions for each kind of practitioner and hence there's no defining who does, or doesn't do, what. Without that it can't clearly be defined what a fake is but a fraud would be someone who deliberately misleads in any field of claimed, or implied, expertise.

[Andrew]

You are correct once again Mac. So in response I clarify by way of stating the following: Sylvia Brown has no paranormal psychic NOR mediumship abilities and she is a downright immoral person (we have her criminal conviction to prove definitively the latter statement).

The former statement here is pure speculation, since there is still no reliable evidence to confirm either way what abilities Sylvia Browne has or does not have. The latter statement is very judgmental. For all you know, she could have changed since that conviction (which we still don't know the details of).

[Andrew]

"Firstly, predictions of the future comes from psychic abilities, not mediumistic abilities. So, at worst, this proves that she is a lousy psychic. It doesn't prove anything about her ability to communicate with the afterlife - that's a completely different area of skill. It would be like saying someone who couldn't speak, because they don't know how to read. The two skills are connected, but don't depend on each other necessarily. Mediums get messages through their guides to other spirits and back. Psychics access their higher self for information. A lot of people can do both.

Secondly, this doesn't prove that she is a fake at all - just that she is not good at what she does psychically. You see what I mean? Clearly, she's not the person to go for future guidance, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she's a fraud. "

Couldn't let these claims go without comment....;)

First point. ANYONE can predict the future - it requires neither psychic nor mediumistic attributes. It doesn't mean predictions will turn out to be correct but neither are all predictions by psychics - or mediums! And both may be found trying....

Re mediums and psychics I've already commented here and in other threads, today and on other occasions.... There are varying definitions for each kind of practitioner and hence there's no defining who does, or doesn't do, what. Without that it can't clearly be defined what a fake is but a fraud would be someone who deliberately misleads in any field of claimed, or implied, expertise.

Well, anyone can be a medium as well, Mac. I am learning myself. Some people are more talented, but everyone has the ability. The same is true with genuine psychic ability. None of these traits and abilities are exclusive to unique people - they are universal. My point in the quoted message was to explain that Lithuania's post did nothing to prove that Sylvia wasn't a legitimate psychic.

For all intents and purposes of this thread, the word fake is synonymous with your definition of fraud.

[lithuania]

Yes Andrew, and Hitler also could have changed after he murdered millions.
Andrew, when you watch the videos of Sylvia missing and missing and missing on her guesses, does this not ring a little bell in your head?

[mac]

You are correct once again Mac. So in response I clarify by way of stating the following: Sylvia Brown has no paranormal psychic NOR mediumship abilities and she is a downright immoral person (we have her criminal conviction to prove definitively the latter statement).

I accept that the laws of the land in which she lives define her morality or lack of it. I don't know any details and will refrain from further comment.

I have no idea whether the first claims are accurate. Both psychic and mediumistic attributes have not been universally defined and accepted so only 100% failure on all counts, at all times, in the past and into the future, in both fields would indicate that all or both attributes were absent.

[Andrew]

I am going to repeat myself here - for the sake of clarity - there is not enough to proof to definitively state whether or not Sylvia Browne has any developed ability to communicate with the dead or access information through psychic means. Similarly, we cannot brand her as a fraud/fake until we know whether or not she has developed mediumistic abilities.

All else is pure speculation, since the internet seems to hold little (if any) credible evidence either way.

[Andrew]

Yes Andrew, and Hitler also could have changed after he murdered millions.
Andrew, when you watch the videos of Sylvia missing and missing and missing on her guesses, does this not ring a little bell in your head?

Update: Hitler did change - after his death - and he is learning and progressing as well as can be expected. We are told, by a couple of sources, that he didn't suffer to much guilt actually, because most of his murders were committed indirectly. Just thought I would add this to the conversation, since you brought him up...

What you don't seem to be getting though, my friend, is that we don't know the whole story. We don't know how her clients feel - they may be inadvertently blocking the communications. It all depends. She definitely has had some successes - you don't get to her position in life without discerning something accurate. We cannot just ignore those. I'm sorry, but your "evidence" just doesn't tell the whole story, and some of it isn't too reliable.

Is there any need to perpetuate this conversation?

[mac]

Well, anyone can be a medium as well, Mac. I am learning myself. Some people are more talented, but everyone has the ability. The same is true with genuine psychic ability. None of these traits and abilities are exclusive to unique people - they are universal. My point in the quoted message was to explain that Lithuania's post did nothing to prove that Sylvia wasn't a legitimate psychic.

For all intents and purposes of this thread, the word fake is synonymous with your definition of fraud.

And again, Andrew, they are points on which we'll have to disagree because medium and psychic are not defined or accepted and because what you claim in your sentences above can't be proven.

Provided the action is deliberate I'll accept that fake is synonymous with fraudulent but it shows how important it is to know what's expected of each type of practitioner.

I don't know if Sylvia Browne is a psychic, a medium, or neither. But I do know what I understand psychics and mediums are....

[Andrew]

And again, Andrew, they are points on which we'll have to disagree because medium and psychic are not defined or accepted and because what you claim in your sentences above can't be proven.

Provided the action is deliberate I'll accept that fake is synonymous with fraudulent but it shows how important it is to know what's expected of each type of practitioner.

I don't know if Sylvia Browne is a psychic, a medium, or neither. But I do know what I understand psychics and mediums are....

Which claim can't be proven, Mac? The part that anyone can become a medium or a psychic? That can actually, because I am the least psychic person there is and I have found books and guides that do help - I still have a lot of work to do, but I am getting there. We all a type of intuition in us, and it is all about trusting that - once you do that, you realize that you were sort of a psychic (or a medium, if that is your goal) before, you just didn't realize it.

[mac]

Which claim can't be proven, Mac? The part that anyone can become a medium or a psychic? That can actually, because I am the least psychic person there is and I have found books and guides that do help - I still have a lot of work to do, but I am getting there. We all a type of intuition in us, and it is all about trusting that - once you do that, you realize that you were sort of a psychic (or a medium, if that is your goal) before, you just didn't realize it.

Which claims? All of them other than your claim to be learning yourself which I'm more than happy to accept! :D

My point was - and still is - that it can't be proven that, quote: "...anyone can be a medium.... Some people are more talented, but everyone has the ability. The same is true with genuine psychic ability. None of these traits and abilities are exclusive to unique people - they are universal." These statements are claims as they're not proven. They may be true but they may not. Simply because you've found attributes in yourself (I think that's what you're suggesting?) however unexpected doesn't mean they are there in everyone else. It also doesn't alter the possibility they were simply latent in yourself but that doesn't automatically make it the case for everyone.

One swallow doesn't make a Spring. ;)

[lithuania]

Andrew who are these sources claiming that Hitler changed in the afterlife. Thanks.

[Andrew]

Which claims? All of them other than your claim to be learning yourself which I'm more than happy to accept! :D

My point was - and still is - that it can't be proven that, quote: "...anyone can be a medium.... Some people are more talented, but everyone has the ability. The same is true with genuine psychic ability. None of these traits and abilities are exclusive to unique people - they are universal." These statements are claims as they're not proven. They may be true but they may not. Simply because you've found attributes in yourself (I think that's what you're suggesting?) however unexpected doesn't mean they are there in everyone else. It also doesn't alter the possibility they were simply latent in yourself but that doesn't automatically make it the case for everyone.

One swallow doesn't make a Spring. ;)


I did not mean to suggest that, just because I could do something, everyone could do it. I'm still far from the being able be anything close to a professional medium, but I am learning. The point, however, was to use myself as an example.

Maybe if I phrase it this way it will make more sense: Everyone is a medium and a psychic already. We all send an receive messages with the deceased, whether we realize it or not. We also have a certain amount of intuition that guides such, whether we realize it or not - what is called the sixth sense. My experience is that, people who have developed this ability are simply the ones who have learned to consciously listen to themselves.

I have also heard this from various afterlife literary works, and from several living mediums. It's like any other talent. Take art for example, not everything will be a prodigy, but everyone can become at least an okay artist, providing that they have faith in themselves and put in genuine effort.

[lithuania]

Andrew, you are partaking in flawed logical thinking. Just because you claim to be able to become a medium or psychic does not mean that Everyone can become a medium or psychic (the reverse of the black crow, white crow argument). I do not see evidence for claiming that anyone and everyone can become a medium or psychic (your making this claim or others simply making this claim is proof of nothing).

[lithuania]

No leaps of logic in this statement: something obviously must be true because you say so and because you read some books and talked to a few mediums that claim so:

Maybe if I phrase it this way it will make more sense: Everyone is a medium and a psychic already. We all send an receive messages with the deceased, whether we realize it or not. We also have a certain amount of intuition that guides such, whether we realize it or not - what is called the sixth sense. My experience is that, people who have developed this ability are simply the ones who have learned to consciously listen to themselves.

I have also heard this from various afterlife literary works, and from several living mediums. It's like any other talent. Take art for example, not everything will be a prodigy, but everyone can become at least an okay artist, providing that they have faith in themselves and put in genuine effort.

[Andrew]

Andrew who are these sources claiming that Hitler changed in the afterlife. Thanks.

Carol & Mikey, for one. I have definitely read other accounts about Hitler's death and afterlife, but I am really going to have to delve into my library to figure out where I read them. Roberta has mentioned this to, so I'll ask her. In the meantime, there are a couple of threads about Hitler here. Search for them and pay attention to Carol & Mikey say.

For the record though - we all will change eventually in the afterlife. No matter how long it takes, everyone will enter the Summerland. Eventually, even the lowliest murders and serial killers will learn and grow - they will become advanced beings like Jesus...eventually. No one is evil, everyone is good by nature, and everyone learns and progresses. A bad earth life is nothing more than a bad test day at school.

[Andrew]

Andrew, you are partaking in flawed logical thinking. Just because you claim to be able to become a medium or psychic does not mean that Everyone can become a medium or psychic (the reverse of the black crow, white crow argument). I do not see evidence for claiming that anyone and everyone can become a medium or psychic (your making this claim or others simply making this claim is proof of nothing).

With all due respect, Lithuania, you have not done the research, so you really cannot conclude this. This is what I was talking about earlier - I was not making a conclusion about Sylvia, but choosing not to, because I have not researched her enough. You are choosing to make conclusions, even though you haven't done research on this.

It is not flawed thinking. I never said that the reason I know that anyone can have success at being psychic was because I can have success. That was a misunderstanding - perhaps I worded my earlier post wrong. I have read in countless books (would you actually like a list?) that everyone has these abilities, and I maintain that most people use them, albeit in minute ways, without realizing it.

[Andrew]

No leaps of logic in this statement: something obviously must be true because you say so and because you read some books and talked to a few mediums that claim so:

Maybe if I phrase it this way it will make more sense: Everyone is a medium and a psychic already. We all send an receive messages with the deceased, whether we realize it or not. We also have a certain amount of intuition that guides such, whether we realize it or not - what is called the sixth sense. My experience is that, people who have developed this ability are simply the ones who have learned to consciously listen to themselves.

I have also heard this from various afterlife literary works, and from several living mediums. It's like any other talent. Take art for example, not everything will be a prodigy, but everyone can become at least an okay artist, providing that they have faith in themselves and put in genuine effort.

Here you are twisting my words a bit. I never said that something has to be true because I say it is. But, in this case, this particular issue has been reported to be true so many times, that it must be true.

For the record, I have read over 100 books, relating to the afterlife and spirituality, and interviewed dozens of experts. I have also interviewed many mediums, mostly through private email communications - although a few were on my radio show. I do not presume to know everything about the afterlife, or even to come close to such a statement, but there are some things that are indisputably true. That's for sure.

[mac]

And again, Andrew, they are points on which we'll have to disagree because medium and psychic are not defined or accepted and because what you claim in your sentences above can't be proven.

Provided the action is deliberate I'll accept that fake is synonymous with fraudulent but it shows how important it is to know what's expected of each type of practitioner.

I don't know if Sylvia Browne is a psychic, a medium, or neither. But I do know what I understand psychics and mediums are....

Further to what I wrote earlier, I was impressed to say that there can be a difference between 'fake' and 'fraud'. A painting can be a close, near identically similar copy of a well-known piece. It's a fake because it's not the genuine article but only when it's offered as the original would it be seen as fraud, where the intention is to deceive.

A practitioner might have genuine belief in her or his ability as a psychic or a medium and offer what they believe to be genuine. (S)he would be considered a fake, though, if it turned out that the service provided is consistently shown to be neither psychic nor mediumistic. If that practitioner continues to offer their services two situations are likely.

Firstly (s)he realises the service provided is not genuine but continues - I see that as fraud.

Secondly the practitioner may still believe in the service (s)he is providing despite the efforts of detractors to prove otherwise. But it's not fraud if there's no deliberate deception.

[Andrew]

Further to what I wrote earlier, I was impressed to say that there can be a difference between 'fake' and 'fraud'. A painting can be a close, near identically similar copy of a well-known piece. It's a fake because it's not the genuine article but only when it's offered as the original would it be seen as fraud, where the intention is to deceive.

A practitioner might have genuine belief in her or his ability as a psychic or a medium and offer what they believe to be genuine. (S)he would be considered a fake, though, if it turned out that the service provided is consistently shown to be neither psychic nor mediumistic. If that practitioner continues to offer their services two situations are likely.

Firstly (s)he realises the service provided is not genuine but continues - I see that as fraud.

Secondly the practitioner may still believe in the service (s)he is providing despite the efforts of detractors to prove otherwise. But it's not fraud if there's no deliberate deception.

I see what you are saying, Mac, but I still think that, for this conversation at least, everyone who is saying "fake" really means "fraud." It seems that Sylvia is being a accused of intention trickery, which falls under the "fraud" category.

[mac]

Andrew;8128 - for simplicity of reply I'll write my responses in blue

I did not mean to suggest that, just because I could do something, everyone could do it. I'm still far from the being able be anything close to a professional medium, but I am learning. The point, however, was to use myself as an example. Whatever example one might use it doesn't prove a principle. Your attributes may be innate and latent but that can't mean that everyone has such latent attributes....

Maybe if I phrase it this way it will make more sense: Everyone is a medium and a psychic already. We all send an receive messages with the deceased, whether we realize it or not. It's mac's LP time again - what's a psychic, what's a medium? In your example I say neither is evident....We also have a certain amount of intuition that guides such, whether we realize it or not - what is called the sixth sense. My experience is that, people who have developed this ability are simply the ones who have learned to consciously listen to themselves. But that still doesn't prove the principle...

I have also heard this from various afterlife literary works, and from several living mediums. It's like any other talent. Take art for example, not everything will be a prodigy, but everyone can become at least an okay artist, providing that they have faith in themselves and put in genuine effort. I heed the words and ideas of the teachers and guides I respect and I can't recall them saying mediumship can be taught.... I made the point somewhere earlier this evening that we can't ever know that someone's emerging mediumship wasn't innate, we can't show that it had been wholly taught. (as reading is taught in school for example)

[mac]

I see what you are saying, Mac, but I still think that, for this conversation at least, everyone who is saying "fake" really means "fraud." It seems that Sylvia is being a accused of intention trickery, which falls under the "fraud" category.

I'm trying to be objective rather than subjective or prejudiced when I don't have the facts - I hope others are also trying. I'm also trying to establish a principle which would be applicable in all such situations.

If this individual falls into my fraud suggestion then she's a fraud but the accusation alone doesn't equate to guilt....

If she genuinely believes she's genuine, if she genuinely believes she's giving the service she advertises - even if others claim she doesn't deliver - then I see her as a fake and not a fraud.

But, then, trying to be even-handed is one of my (many) character weaknesses.... ;)

[Carol and Mikey]

WHOA! This is quite the thread you all got going. Yikes!
In regards to Hitler, Mikey tells me he chose to live that life. It is something he wanted to experience. A life without love, basically. And as you might guess, passing over and going through the life review was eye opening! He realized what a terrible mistake he had made. I know Sally Baldwin ( she is a spiritual medium) has written about this in her book: Dying To Live Again. He learned a lot from this on how NOT to be. Mikey said lots of guidance was given. (Now I have no way to prove this. I am strictly going on what Mikey says.)
A point of interest here is Sally Balwin. She calls herself a "spiritual medium" not a "psychic medium". The difference is she told me she would never claim to predict the future. God and love is her basis. Strictly and only "communicating " with the Otherside.
Mikey also says predicting specifics about the future is just not possible. Freewill comes in to play and alters constantly. Mikey says he has made "general statements" about the future with the Spiritual Shift, but he cannot say that in 2 months "this or that" is going to happen , for example. Just not going to happen. Predictions usually are not very accurate according to Mikey. He tells me that predictions are not always God based. If it is not about love in some way, it is not of God. So Mikey says where is the info coming from that they can make these statements??? This is where I think of Mac's comment of trying to make it fit. Anyway.............
Mikey also tells me what comes through during a reading is what comes through. It just it was it is. It is not necessarily the medium's fault. The medium is "relaying" the message. The issue may be with the soul who has passed. Mikey again says that communication can be difficult, very difficult. Food for thought anyway. Quite frankly, I cannot prove this neither! Only a few on this forum has "seen" how I talk to Mikey. I am actually thinking of posting a video of it. I will need help no doubt as I am clueless! :)
Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

[Andrew]

WHOA! This is quite the thread you all got going. Yikes!
In regards to Hitler, Mikey tells me he chose to live that life. It is something he wanted to experience. A life without love, basically. And as you might guess, passing over and going through the life review was eye opening! He realized what a terrible mistake he had made. I know Sally Baldwin ( she is a spiritual medium) has written about this in her book: Dying To Live Again. He learned a lot from this on how NOT to be. Mikey said lots of guidance was given. (Now I have no way to prove this. I am strictly going on what Mikey says.)
A point of interest here is Sally Balwin. She calls herself a "spiritual medium" not a "psychic medium". The difference is she told me she would never claim to predict the future. God and love is her basis. Strictly and only "communicating " with the Otherside.
Mikey also says predicting specifics about the future is just not possible. Freewill comes in to play and alters constantly. Mikey says he has made "general statements" about the future with the Spiritual Shift, but he cannot say that in 2 months "this or that" is going to happen , for example. Just not going to happen. Predictions usually are not very accurate according to Mikey. He tells me that predictions are not always God based. If it is not about love in some way, it is not of God. So Mikey says where is the info coming from that they can make these statements??? This is where I think of Mac's comment of trying to make it fit. Anyway.............
Mikey also tells me what comes through during a reading is what comes through. It just it was it is. It is not necessarily the medium's fault. The medium is "relaying" the message. The issue may be with the soul who has passed. Mikey again says that communication can be difficult, very difficult. Food for thought anyway. Quite frankly, I cannot prove this neither! Only a few on this forum has "seen" how I talk to Mikey. I am actually thinking of posting a video of it. I will need help no doubt as I am clueless! :)
Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

Hi Carol! Thanks for reporting the information about Hitler - I couldn't find the direct link to the older thread.

If you don't mind I have a question for Mikey: Does he know if (living) humans can channel information from their higher selves? I'm curious, because this is how predictions seem to work. The psychic channels information from the Higher Self, which is outside of time. What Mikey says is true - the future is always changing, but there is no objective time. So, the part of us that exists outside of time altogether should have access to knowledge of the future, right?

[poeticblue]

Carol, please post a video on this forum as I would like to see what you do. I would imagine that using a pendelum to answer these questions would take hours!

Anyways here is what I think and this is for the people who 110% believe Psychic sylvia is a fraud. I believe she is the real deal but I don't think she is advanced enough to let all of the communication come through correctly. I don't think she is a fraud. I just think she is using her talents (I would admit novice talents) to make a living and that she possibly could be taking advantage of people but still that does not mean she is a fraud. It just means she is greedy cause yes she charges alot but c'mon wouldn't you? She is trying to survive like the rest of us and she had children to take care of at the beginning of her career. Now of course you would say, "No I'm not that kind of person" but you aren't psychic are you? And are you a single parent? You don't know what lengths you would go to given a situation so dont be quick to judge.

Now.. I've read just about all of Psychic Sylvia's books.. alot of things that she has said rings alot of truth. I have read alot of other miscellaneous afterlife books from different authors that I have called bulls*it on. Sylvia's books however did not come across to me that way. I am no way naive at all. One thing I do have a problem with is her arrogant Spirit Guide. She is very inconsistent. Perhaps that is why Sylvia is inconsistent because HELLOOOOOO her Spirit Guide has only lived ONE LIFE. Tell me how can someone that has only lived one life know much about anything??? Her spirit guide reminds me of a teenager.

[poeticblue]

Lithuania please sit back and relax. I have read your posts on this forum and held my tongue a little bit because I do understand your skepticism and I dont want to make it seem like everything everybody else says is right and you are wrong. It seems like your skepticism has derived from a deep pain that you have faced sometime in your life and has embossed itself deep inside of you that you refuse to believe alot of things. There is a beautiful place full of wonder where people love you and dont hate you Lithuania.. and there are alot of people who can give you proof that this exist. You yourself have the proof but you probably just dismiss it and you still keep asking for more proof.

Lets say that these psychics are a fraud. Who flippin cares??????? I certainly do not because I know my own truth. I dont let anyone else decide that for me. Do you know your own truth Lithuania? You wouldn't have registered on these boards talking about prove this and prove that if you did. So let us help you. Let people in. I don't mean to sound harsh. But you seem to have the personality to handle it. So please please please let us try to help you!

[Carol and Mikey]

Andrew,

Mikey tells me it is possible for humans to channel information from their higher selves. But he says that information tells you about yourself "now". Your higher self understands your "all being". But it does not indicate "specifics" about your future. Mikey says that God is "all knowing" and only God. Your future "rests" in God only. This information is not to come through. Specifics are not allowed. Think about if it was....think of how that could alter things. And remember that freewill has an effect as well.
Mikey does say if an individual is getting "specifics" about the future, where is the information coming from? What is the source?
( This is what Mikey said. I have no way to prove this. ) So who knows! :) I guess we will know when we get there! :)

Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

[Half of Us]

Lithuania please sit back and relax. I have read your posts on this forum and held my tongue a little bit because I do understand your skepticism and I dont want to make it seem like everything everybody else says is right and you are wrong. It seems like your skepticism has derived from a deep pain that you have faced sometime in your life and has embossed itself deep inside of you that you refuse to believe alot of things. There is a beautiful place full of wonder where people love you and dont hate you Lithuania.. and there are alot of people who can give you proof that this exist. You yourself have the proof but you probably just dismiss it and you still keep asking for more proof.

Lets say that these psychics are a fraud. Who flippin cares??????? I certainly do not because I know my own truth. I dont let anyone else decide that for me. Do you know your own truth Lithuania? You wouldn't have registered on these boards talking about prove this and prove that if you did. So let us help you. Let people in. I don't mean to sound harsh. But you seem to have the personality to handle it. So please please please let us try to help you!

Poetic, you seem to be such a beautiful and kind soul. Please do not think I am being harsh but I care very much about frauds in the spiritual field. I care that Sylvia told distraught parents their son was dead. He wasn't and her reading may have very well delayed finding him for several years 50 miles from his home. I care very much that people who are so broken with grief for a lost loved one scrap together $850.00 for a 30 minute reading with a rude and arrogant con artist. I believe Sylvia has been married 4 times so there were plenty of time she was not a single mother.

Honestly, if I had a gift of bringing true messages from the afterlife to those grieving, I would not charge these ridiculous rates. How many books has she written, jewelry sold or lectures given that could have offset her lifestyle? I think it very evident that Lithuania knows her own truth and it does not seem he/she needs help in this particular matter. I believe that trying to protect people is one of the most loving things we can do and there is no shame in being skeptical when you are seeking to expand your outlook. Obviously, many people here became skeptical of religions they were brought up with to change their views. Isn't it ironic that skepticism is the path to growth?

[poeticblue]

Poetic, you seem to be such a beautiful and kind soul. Please do not think I am being harsh but I care very much about frauds in the spiritual field. I care that Sylvia told distraught parents their son was dead. He wasn't and her reading may have very well delayed finding him for several years 50 miles from his home. I care very much that people who are so broken with grief for a lost loved one scrap together $850.00 for a 30 minute reading with a rude and arrogant con artist. I believe Sylvia has been married 4 times so there were plenty of time she was not a single mother.

Honestly, if I had a gift of bringing true messages from the afterlife to those grieving, I would not charge these ridiculous rates. How many books has she written, jewelry sold or lectures given that could have offset her lifestyle? I think it very evident that Lithuania knows her own truth and it does not seem he/she needs help in this particular matter. I believe that trying to protect people is one of the most loving things we can do and there is no shame in being skeptical when you are seeking to expand your outlook. Obviously, many people here became skeptical of religions they were brought up with to change their views. Isn't it ironic that skepticism is the path to growth?

Half of Us.. I've been wanting to say that I've always loved your avater.

I have also read about Sylvia's many marriages.. rates.. and the case with the missing son. It did raise an eyebrow for me I admit, but she is also still very much human. She is not a saint, an angel, nor a God.

If Lithuania knows her/his own truth well then I'm glad I was wrong. But that was not the feeling that I got. I guess I've been feeling with too much of my heart and not with my head. But that will never change lol.

[Andrew]

Andrew,

Mikey tells me it is possible for humans to channel information from their higher selves. But he says that information tells you about yourself "now". Your higher self understands your "all being". But it does not indicate "specifics" about your future. Mikey says that God is "all knowing" and only God. Your future "rests" in God only. This information is not to come through. Specifics are not allowed. Think about if it was....think of how that could alter things. And remember that freewill has an effect as well.
Mikey does say if an individual is getting "specifics" about the future, where is the information coming from? What is the source?
( This is what Mikey said. I have no way to prove this. ) So who knows! :) I guess we will know when we get there! :)

Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

Thanks for the reply, Carol! To be honest, I'm not so sure about this. I have seen many successful predictions of the future, and I find it hard to believe that it's not possible at all. I know that other psychic abilities are possible, so I am going to continue to research this.

[Half of Us]

Half of Us.. I've been wanting to say that I've always loved your avater.

I have also read about Sylvia's many marriages.. rates.. and the case with the missing son. It did raise an eyebrow for me I admit, but she is also still very much human. She is not a saint, an angel, nor a God.

If Lithuania knows her/his own truth well then I'm glad I was wrong. But that was not the feeling that I got. I guess I've been feeling with too much of my heart and not with my head. But that will never change lol.

And I hope it never does as that is your true and sweet nature. Love.

[Carol and Mikey]

Andrew,
Check it out. I have no idea. Mikey tells me "specific predictions" that are accurate are rare. General statements is one thing, "specific" is a whole other ball game accordig to Mikey. Have there been some recent ones (specific predictions) from psychics on earth now? I actually feel this is what gets some of these psychics in trouble. The challenge begins. So who knows. :)
Carol

[Andrew]

Andrew,
Check it out. I have no idea. Mikey tells me "specific predictions" that are accurate are rare. General statements is one thing, "specific" is a whole other ball game accordig to Mikey. Have there been some recent ones (specific predictions) from psychics on earth now? I actually feel this is what gets some of these psychics in trouble. The challenge begins. So who knows. :)
Carol

A lot of afterlife literature talks about a place/thing (or just energy maybe) called the Akashic Records. It is Mind, or Cosmic Consciousness, or whatever you want to call it. It records everything that has happened, and everything that will ever happen. Sort of like the Memory of God, I suppose. Does Mikey know anything about this? I know of several, reputable psychics (Richard Webster, for one) who can tap into this to get information about the future. We're all connected to the Akashic Records, and we can visit it via out-of-body experiences (it usually looks like a library, from the reports), so I would think that, yes, one can tap into it.

Speaking of out-of-body experiences, this is supposedly another way to predict the future. You could simply (with effort) leave your body and ask a question, and then get the answer. I believe Robert Monroe (a famous astral traveler) mentioned something like this, but I'm not 100% sure that it was him.

[Fasaga]

Andrew,

Mikey tells me it is possible for humans to channel information from their higher selves. But he says that information tells you about yourself "now". Your higher self understands your "all being". But it does not indicate "specifics" about your future. Mikey says that God is "all knowing" and only God. Your future "rests" in God only. This information is not to come through. Specifics are not allowed. Think about if it was....think of how that could alter things. And remember that freewill has an effect as well.
Mikey does say if an individual is getting "specifics" about the future, where is the information coming from? What is the source?
( This is what Mikey said. I have no way to prove this. ) So who knows! :) I guess we will know when we get there! :)

Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"

As I've said before, there are rules as to what we can know now, and how. We are just not ready for the whole truth, yet.

[mac]

Thanks for the reply, Carol! To be honest, I'm not so sure about this. I have seen many successful predictions of the future, and I find it hard to believe that it's not possible at all. I know that other psychic abilities are possible, so I am going to continue to research this.

Oh Andrew - one swallow as I said earlier..... For each accurate prediction of the future what of all the inaccurate ones? Now should one practitioner repeatedly, reliably, accurately predict future events I would then listen to the predictions.

If any one prediction turned out to be accurate, was that because the event HAD to happen, that the future was absolutely certain and could not be different, or might it simply have been that on that particular occasion, with that particular prediction, it happened to be correct?

I'm sorry to bang on about this but citing accurate examples - and ignoring all the rest - does not establish a principle.

[mac]

As I pointed out earlier:

"ANYONE can predict the future - it requires neither psychic nor mediumistic attributes. It doesn't mean predictions will turn out to be correct but neither are all predictions by psychics - or mediums! And both may be found trying...."

Humankind has a knack for ignoring what's not convenient. We focus on the prediction that happened to be accurate while ignoring the vast majority that were not....

[lithuania]

Poeticblue, you miss the point. A fraudulent medium or psychic does great harm to people-do you not understand this simple fact?

[poeticblue]

Poeticblue, you miss the point. A fraudulent medium or psychic does great harm to people-do you not understand this simple fact?

I understand that you have a chip on your shoulder.

[bbl]

I've only gone to one medium, Ocallah, after my daughter passed and she amazed me. She didn't get much the first time I contacted her and had me call her back 6 weeks later (at no extra charge) and got so much right, it blew me away. I also like the Long Island Medium on TLC - she's really good and humorous too.

Although, I'm not a medium or a psychic - although I've had psychic experiences - I know through automatic writing that there are some days I can't receive and others where it's easy.

[Carol and Mikey]

I think Lithuania is not going to believe until he has an "experience" that knocks his socks off! I have to admit, until you experience something, it takes a while to understand certain things in life. Really the best way to learn is by experience. So I am hoping for Lithuania to have a great experience.......I just hope the openness is there enough! But I am confident it is!!! :)
Carol

[WWE LOVER]

I think Lithuania is not going to believe until he has an "experience" that knocks his socks off! I have to admit, until you experience something, it takes a while to understand certain things in life. Really the best way to learn is by experience. So I am hoping for Lithuania to have a great experience.......I just hope the openness is there enough! But I am confident it is!!! :)
Carol

Yes, it's likely that lithuania would want that kind of experience. Getting that kind of experience can change your ideas.

I don't think he's against the idea of psychics and mediums being legit, but merely against ones that he thinks are not.

[Half of Us]

[QUOTE=lithuania;8029]WWE LOVER, I have no doubt there are real mediums/psyhics out there (Skye being one of them) who have real paranormal abilities.


Just wanted to quote Lithuania showing he does believe, with discernment.

[mac]

I think Lithuania is not going to believe until he has an "experience" that knocks his socks off! I have to admit, until you experience something, it takes a while to understand certain things in life. Really the best way to learn is by experience. So I am hoping for Lithuania to have a great experience.......I just hope the openness is there enough! But I am confident it is!!! :)
Carol

It's true that experience is the most convincing way to go. For some nothing less than a 'knock your socks off' experience will do. Such individuals need evidential mediumship of the highest order. Psychism - no matter how good the practitioner - is not a substitute for quality mediumship. That leaves seekers in a difficult situation...

The mediumship of yesteryear is less common in this modern world. Reliable mediums with predictable results are rare and it's not down solely to the calibre of the medium.

This member (and any other in a similar situation) may need great persistence to find what will convince them. We can only wish them the best of luck in their searches.

[lithuania]

Seems Sylvia is not only a fraud as a medium, she may not even be writing her own books (interesting post by someone re her audio books):
I own many of Sylvia Browne's audiobooks and I've listened to them
quite frequently over the past few years. However, judging by her
reading of what are supposedly her own books, suspicions have been
formulating in my head for the past year or so, which were more or
less cemented after extensively reading your site. The woman is a fraud.

To elaborate on my initial suspicions as a listener of her
audiobooks... First of all, it was clear to me that Sylvia was not
writing a lot of her own material, because her readings sounded like
she was unfamiliar with the wording and necessary inflections that
certain phrases or sentences demanded, and she would misread sentences
using awkward or inappropriate inflections which distorted the meaning
of 'her' words. Being somewhat of a writer myself, I know that if you
truly wrote your own work, you'd know what you meant and how to read
it properly, and where inflection is appropriate. But even more
importantly-- you'd know how to PRONOUNCE the words you wrote
yourself, which brings me to my next point: It often bothered me that
Sylvia pronounced many words and terms incorrectly. For example, in
her Secrets & Mysteries of the World audiobook, which is self-read,
she hesitates before attempting to say 'Gaia hypothesis,' a term which
is commonly pronounced 'guy-uh' or sometimes 'gay-uh,' but which
Browne hesitates and then cumbersomely pronounces as 'Ja-ee-uh,' as if
it was the first time in her life she had ever seen the word. Excuse
me, but isn't she supposed to have researched and written this
herself? She also claims that the old Celtic (and now NeoPagan)
holiday Samhain can be pronounced as it is spelled, when I know for a
fact that it is never pronounced how it's spelled; it is always
pronounced 'SOW-en,' and not 'Sam-hayne,' which she says.

Not only this, but her information is often grossly inaccurate, at
least in terms of defining philosophical terms. Back to the Gaia
hypothesis, Browne claims in the same book that the meaning behind the
Gaia hypothesis is that 'Mother Earth is mad and angry at us, so she
wants to destroy us,' or something very close to that nature, when
this is in fact inaccurate. If Browne was such a learned scholar and
theologian as she claims to be, she would know that the Gaia
hypothesis states simply that the Earth itself is a living organism.

I've also noticed that she misquotes the Bible. I'm not a Christian
myself, but I have been, and I've read several translations of the NT.
Browne often quotes Christ in her Tools For Life audiobook as saying
that where two or more are gathered in his name, miracles will happen.
Incorrect. Christ actually says that where two or more are gathered in
his name, there he will be present... nothing about miracles. Yet
Browne claims to have read every existing translation of the Bible.
Another bit of Browne's misinformation: she defined "occult" as being
something dark and sinister, black magic or the like. In reality, and
if she were a true philosopher or theologian she would know that the
word "occult" does not, contrary to popular belief, connote 'dark
magic,' but rather means literally 'secret' or 'hidden,' in reference
to spiritual teachings and literature that was not generally known or
read by the public.

Browne's grammar is often way off, which really bothered me at times
as well. She often says fragments of sentences without completing her
thoughts, or uses plural subjects with a singular object or vice
versa, and even sometimes more blatantly makes little to no sense at
all, and often mispronounces and jumbles words. She does not even care
about the poor quality of audiobooks she is releasing. While all of
the other audiobooks I own are read by their authors flawlessly,
Browne made no effort to correct or clean up her various errors for
her paying customers. She also does not 'sound' very educated as a
result.

Many of these little details began to add up, and so I'd begun to
suspect that Browne was not truly as educated as she claimed to be,
and even that someone else was doing her research, as it seemed clear
to me that she had not the faintest clue as to what she was reading
when reading 'her own' books.

Finding your site completely opened my eyes. I read the first few
articles hoping to defend her, trying to find a way that she could be
'innocent,' but I lost all respect for her and her entire operation
after reading the account of the former Novus Spiritus member. Reading
more about her questionable- or more likely fraudulent- claims to have
a master's degree in English further cemented my belief that this
woman is not as educated as she claims to be, and I'd go so far as to
say that she isn't writing her own books, and she hasn't even
researched the information upon which she claims to be an expert

[lithuania]

Our brilliant Dr. Browne:

Even though Browne has no formal medical education, she freely dispenses medical advice to her subjects. She has told people to take specific drugs, something only educated doctors are allowed to do. She confuses hemorrhages with clots (they are opposites). She claims bilirubin is a liver enzyme, when in fact it is a degradation product of human hemoglobin. She has suggested a test be made for Epstein-Barr disease related to the examination of fecal matter, when no such test exists. She has told someone just diagnosed with multiple sclerosis that the person didn’t really have the disease. And she has suggested that a person with stomach pains really had a metal object inside the body, forgotten by doctors – and therefore should get a MRI-scan. Having a metal object inside you while being inside a very powerful magnetic piece of machinery will tear out the object with possible death as a result.

[Andrew]

Our brilliant Dr. Browne:

Even though Browne has no formal medical education, she freely dispenses medical advice to her subjects. She has told people to take specific drugs, something only educated doctors are allowed to do. She confuses hemorrhages with clots (they are opposites). She claims bilirubin is a liver enzyme, when in fact it is a degradation product of human hemoglobin. She has suggested a test be made for Epstein-Barr disease related to the examination of fecal matter, when no such test exists. She has told someone just diagnosed with multiple sclerosis that the person didn’t really have the disease. And she has suggested that a person with stomach pains really had a metal object inside the body, forgotten by doctors – and therefore should get a MRI-scan. Having a metal object inside you while being inside a very powerful magnetic piece of machinery will tear out the object with possible death as a result.

Again, Lithuania, this doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Sylvia Browne is a fraud or not. This simply shows that she is uneducated in medical matters. It is often hard for mediums to get specific details about medical procedures, and she could easily be miscontruing spiritual advice. I'm not saying that this is what is happening, but it is a possibility.

If you haven't already, please read the wonderful responses from PoeticBlue, Mac, and Carol above. They pretty much sum up what needs to be said here. Really, I think it is best if you leave the conversation at that. We all know where you stand on this matter. The only way for there to be definitive proof that Browne is a fraud which is for a team of open minded, honest, and reputable scientific researchers to examine her. As far as I can tell, that has not happened yet. Unless you have found such a professional, unbiased report, please do not continue to post these unsubstantiated allegations against Ms. Browne.

I'm sorry, but these links and user comments you've posted here cannot be confirmed and may be from biased sources, such as that Stop-Sylvia website. You have posted your opinions, and so has everyone else. There is no need to continue this - it is going nowhere. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but this could be considered a type of spamming, which is prohibited by our user agreement.

Have you ever thought about this: what if she is a real medium? This jumping to conclusions that has occurred here could end up hurting her public reputation. She may well be a fraud, but she could also be valid. Either way, until there is sufficient, scientifically-supportable proof, we don't want to be seen as harming her public image.

[mac]

lithuania's piece is a rant and I won't waste time reading the details. Skimming through I even noticed criticism of the individual's grammar and writing skills.

The saying 'Get a life' comes to mind.

[Fasaga]

Further to what I wrote earlier, I was impressed to say that there can be a difference between 'fake' and 'fraud'. A painting can be a close, near identically similar copy of a well-known piece. It's a fake because it's not the genuine article but only when it's offered as the original would it be seen as fraud, where the intention is to deceive.

A practitioner might have genuine belief in her or his ability as a psychic or a medium and offer what they believe to be genuine. (S)he would be considered a fake, though, if it turned out that the service provided is consistently shown to be neither psychic nor mediumistic. If that practitioner continues to offer their services two situations are likely.

Firstly (s)he realises the service provided is not genuine but continues - I see that as fraud.

Secondly the practitioner may still believe in the service (s)he is providing despite the efforts of detractors to prove otherwise. But it's not fraud if there's no deliberate deception.

This is a very good point Mac.

I've not had alot of exposure to psychics or mediums, the few I have seen came very highly recommended and were surprisingly accurate.
My thoughts are, could an overconfidence in their personal abilities prompt an overly specific and certain reading or forecast that is absolutely wrong, not making them a fake or a fraud, just over enthusiastic with their abilities, and usually under pressure. Just another human flaw.

[Andrew]

lithuania's piece is a rant and I won't waste time reading the details. Skimming through I even noticed 's criticism of the individual's grammar and writing skills.

The saying 'Get a life' comes to mind.

I must agree with you here, Mac.

[lithuania]

Post removed by administrators due to spamming.

[lithuania]

Post removed by administrators due to spamming.

[Wonderer]

Lithuania, didn't you understand the previous posts?

In a nut shell, you are spamming now and breaking the rules!

Cheers

[mac]

When contributors resort to simply posting cyberlinks, any interchange of views and ideas is over.

The vitriol directed at Sylvia Browne is shocking and more appropriate to the 'Bad Psychics' website (Jon Donnis) than our Afterlife site.

I think lithuania would do well to take a look as I'm certain what he'd find there would match his personal views.....

[Andrew]

Hi everyone! Lithuania's posts above have been removed because we feel that they are now nothing but irrelevant spam. In order to ensue that Mac and Wonderer's posts make sense, I have simply removed the links, but left th posts.

Lithuania, I am about to send you a rather important private message, explaining the consequences of this spamming, since you have been warned several times, so please check your inbox in an hour or so.

[Half of Us]

I know most just want this thread to go away and I apologize for adding to it's life. In all true sincerity, however, I just don't get it.

We are told most of the information on this site has been compiled by researching hundreds (thousands?) of documents which are consistent with the views being espoused here. Yet, when someone is trying to bring forward a variety of information to dispute the claims of an individual who purposefully put themself out in the public to reap the monetary benefits and fame, it is called vitriol. I am very passionate about protecting the underdog and I know, personally, one of the lowest points in anyone's life is the loss of a loved one. I read every post in these boards before contacting a medium (yes, it was a medium, Mac) and was actually OK with the results. As a total novice at all of this, I had expected those who knew so much more than me to be honest or bring up issues on the devious fringe, which we all know is out there. (Please note, I am not referring specifically to anyone by saying devious fringe). As I stated before, I think being protective of people you don't even know is one of the most loving things you can do in your life.

I also cannot understand how I was told that I was not getting signs possibly from the negative and lower vibrations brought on by my grief. If that is the case, how can a person such as Andrew described earlier possibly be able to breach this veil? That is not consistent.

Finally, I find it quite "vitriolic" to suggest a member go to a skeptic site where they would be more comfortable. Most people probably come here truly wanting to find all of the things so many veterans have the luxury of just "knowing". Well guess what? Everyone here is most likely on a different level of spiritual development and an open mind means looking fairly at both sides of an issue. Sometimes, when you are looking so hard, it is very easy to get overly passionate and seem to tread on others belief system.

I find many comments on the Catholic church found here quite one-sided and offensive. No one ever seems to talk about all of the wonderful things the church has done in the world. I like this forum very much but I do not appreciate how sometimes an individual is talked down to or simply dismissed when they do not tow the company line.

Sorry if I offended anyone. This is just my opinion and I really do want to progress to the best soul I can become.

[mac]

I know most just want this thread to go away and I apologize for adding to it's life. In all true sincerity, however, I just don't get it.

We are told most of the information on this site has been compiled by researching hundreds (thousands?) of documents which are consistent with the views being espoused here. Yet, when someone is trying to bring forward a variety of information to dispute the claims of an individual who purposefully put themself out in the public to reap the monetary benefits and fame, it is called vitriol. I am very passionate about protecting the underdog and I know, personally, one of the lowest points in anyone's life is the loss of a loved one. I read every post in these boards before contacting a medium (yes, it was a medium, Mac) and was actually OK with the results. As a total novice at all of this, I had expected those who knew so much more than me to be honest or bring up issues on the devious fringe, which we all know is out there. (Please note, I am not referring specifically to anyone by saying devious fringe). As I stated before, I think being protective of people you don't even know is one of the most loving things you can do in your life.

I also cannot understand how I was told that I was not getting signs possibly from the negative and lower vibrations brought on by my grief. If that is the case, how can a person such as Andrew described earlier possibly be able to breach this veil? That is not consistent.

Finally, I find it quite "vitriolic" to suggest a member go to a skeptic site where they would be more comfortable. Most people probably come here truly wanting to find all of the things so many veterans have the luxury of just "knowing". Well guess what? Everyone here is most likely on a different level of spiritual development and an open mind means looking fairly at both sides of an issue. Sometimes, when you are looking so hard, it is very easy to get overly passionate and seem to tread on others belief system.

I find many comments on the Catholic church found here quite one-sided and offensive. No one ever seems to talk about all of the wonderful things the church has done in the world. I like this forum very much but I do not appreciate how sometimes an individual is talked down to or simply dismissed when they do not tow the company line.

Sorry if I offended anyone. This is just my opinion and I really do want to progress to the best soul I can become.

I'm not offended but I don't agree with your summation of the situation.

As a Modern Spiritualist for nearly three decades I'm particularly interested in communication and mediumship. In my other, regular 'spooks' (not the US meaning) forums the abilities of mediums are frequently discussed and disagreement is the norm. I've been reading and writing about mediumship, psychism et al for quite a few years so it's pretty familiar territory for me. I've lost a son, seen mediums and been duped by psychics. I'm not an expert on this stuff but I'm not a dummer either....

As a specific point, Jon Donnis is constantly exposing fraudulent mediums and that's why I suggested his website as a place where lithuania's views would likely be mirrored. Much more appropriate than writing about these matters on this website in my view.

I'll leave it at that for now.

[poeticblue]

I'm sorry but this whole thread is getting on my nerves. Lithuania are you even a real person or are you just some bot? Thats right I said it. I have no problem speaking whats on my mind if it seems to be offending. You are very disrespectful and rude. You just keep ranting on and on and on about nothing. I don't think he/she is a real person. Just some troll or bot here to get everybody else worked up. Well I'm worked up so I guess they got their way.

I understand people want to keep the peace around here, but I refuse to be locked jawed when complete garbage keeps getting spewed from a person who obvisously has more issues than I do!!!! (Which is extremly disturbing lol.)

I mean its not funny but c'mon. Talk about pointing out the obvious.

[Andrew]

I'm sorry but this whole thread is getting on my nerves. Lithuania are you even a real person or are you just some bot? Thats right I said it. I have no problem speaking whats on my mind if it seems to be offending. You are very disrespectful and rude. You just keep ranting on and on and on about nothing. I don't think he/she is a real person. Just some troll or bot here to get everybody else worked up. Well I'm worked up so I guess they got their way.

I understand people want to keep the peace around here, but I refuse to be locked jawed when complete garbage keeps getting spewed from a person who obvisously has more issues than I do!!!! (Which is extremly disturbing lol.)

I mean its not funny but c'mon. Talk about pointing out the obvious.

Hi PoeticBlue! I completely understand what you are saying. Personally, I do think that Lithuania is a real person - but I cannot know that for sure. Don't get me wrong though, the tone of her messages here, and the wording of a lot of them, are completely inappropriate for our community! A lot of her links in this thread are also considered to be spam.

Please, don't get worked up though: Lithuania had been warned (both in public and private) several times this past week. Yet, after all these warnings, she continued to spam here and disrespect our members, as though nothing was wrong. Finally today, the administration here decided that enough was enough. From now on, Lithuania's posts here must be approved by an administrator before becoming public. We hate to have to restrict our users like that, but she ignored all our warnings and left us no choice but to act.

[poeticblue]

I know most just want this thread to go away and I apologize for adding to it's life. In all true sincerity, however, I just don't get it.

We are told most of the information on this site has been compiled by researching hundreds (thousands?) of documents which are consistent with the views being espoused here. Yet, when someone is trying to bring forward a variety of information to dispute the claims of an individual who purposefully put themself out in the public to reap the monetary benefits and fame, it is called vitriol. I am very passionate about protecting the underdog and I know, personally, one of the lowest points in anyone's life is the loss of a loved one. I read every post in these boards before contacting a medium (yes, it was a medium, Mac) and was actually OK with the results. As a total novice at all of this, I had expected those who knew so much more than me to be honest or bring up issues on the devious fringe, which we all know is out there. (Please note, I am not referring specifically to anyone by saying devious fringe). As I stated before, I think being protective of people you don't even know is one of the most loving things you can do in your life.

I also cannot understand how I was told that I was not getting signs possibly from the negative and lower vibrations brought on by my grief. If that is the case, how can a person such as Andrew described earlier possibly be able to breach this veil? That is not consistent.

Finally, I find it quite "vitriolic" to suggest a member go to a skeptic site where they would be more comfortable. Most people probably come here truly wanting to find all of the things so many veterans have the luxury of just "knowing". Well guess what? Everyone here is most likely on a different level of spiritual development and an open mind means looking fairly at both sides of an issue. Sometimes, when you are looking so hard, it is very easy to get overly passionate and seem to tread on others belief system.

I find many comments on the Catholic church found here quite one-sided and offensive. No one ever seems to talk about all of the wonderful things the church has done in the world. I like this forum very much but I do not appreciate how sometimes an individual is talked down to or simply dismissed when they do not tow the company line.

Sorry if I offended anyone. This is just my opinion and I really do want to progress to the best soul I can become.

Half of Us........I'm not yelling nor am I mad at you.. I'm just frustrated at this person. But what level of "spiritual development" do you think Lithuania is on?????

Forget the afterlife.. Lithuania is on an "all time low level" here, right now, on earth. Look, I can understand the hate about people taking advantage of other people. I'VE BEEN THROUGH THAT. So I understand. But I mean don't keep throwing the negativity into people's faces sounding like a raging idiot. Instead of Lithuania sounding like she cared about other people.. it just sounded like they only cared about her/his own personal interests and nothing more. Are you trying to tell me Lithuania has not sounded rude and ignorant in his/her own other posts? And by ignorant I don't mean whether they were skeptic about the afterlife or not. I mean ignorant as in DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE??? My God.. I said it once and I say it again.. Lithuania has a huge chip on their shoulder about something. I don't know. They claim that they or their family member saw the "Virgin Mary" . Someone said it might have been an illusion. Immediately what does Lithuania do? He/She says "no it was absolutely was the real Virgin Mary". Ok, well if thats the case I say the afterlife is absolutely the real thing and I say that Psychic Sylvia absolutely is not a fraud. I mean cmon.. I busted out laughing with the virgin mary comment but I never told Lithuania that she/he was full of it did I? I just ignored the post and didn't say anything. Then when I try to say what I believe, they get all rude and condescending about it??? Oh no! I dont think so!

Underdog??? Lithuania is NOT the underdog. Lithuania is more than half the population that doesn't understand people like me. I try to tell people about what I believe, talking to spirits, and hearing voices... and do you know what they say??? They just say "wow" or "ok" . I try to tell them about Rizwan and do you know what they say? The first thing out of their mouth is "WELL DID YOU EVEN KNOW HIM THAT WELL??" .. Excuse me????? So lets not even go there about "spiritual development". This is about plain respect for other human beings. I never said that what Lithuania believed was wrong. I never said anything really! Yet I get a rude comment back like I bullied her/him in their past! I'm sorry but that is just plain weird and wrong!

[Andrew]

I know most just want this thread to go away and I apologize for adding to it's life. In all true sincerity, however, I just don't get it.

We are told most of the information on this site has been compiled by researching hundreds (thousands?) of documents which are consistent with the views being espoused here. Yet, when someone is trying to bring forward a variety of information to dispute the claims of an individual who purposefully put themself out in the public to reap the monetary benefits and fame, it is called vitriol. I am very passionate about protecting the underdog and I know, personally, one of the lowest points in anyone's life is the loss of a loved one. I read every post in these boards before contacting a medium (yes, it was a medium, Mac) and was actually OK with the results. As a total novice at all of this, I had expected those who knew so much more than me to be honest or bring up issues on the devious fringe, which we all know is out there. (Please note, I am not referring specifically to anyone by saying devious fringe). As I stated before, I think being protective of people you don't even know is one of the most loving things you can do in your life.

I also cannot understand how I was told that I was not getting signs possibly from the negative and lower vibrations brought on by my grief. If that is the case, how can a person such as Andrew described earlier possibly be able to breach this veil? That is not consistent.

Finally, I find it quite "vitriolic" to suggest a member go to a skeptic site where they would be more comfortable. Most people probably come here truly wanting to find all of the things so many veterans have the luxury of just "knowing". Well guess what? Everyone here is most likely on a different level of spiritual development and an open mind means looking fairly at both sides of an issue. Sometimes, when you are looking so hard, it is very easy to get overly passionate and seem to tread on others belief system.

I find many comments on the Catholic church found here quite one-sided and offensive. No one ever seems to talk about all of the wonderful things the church has done in the world. I like this forum very much but I do not appreciate how sometimes an individual is talked down to or simply dismissed when they do not tow the company line.

Sorry if I offended anyone. This is just my opinion and I really do want to progress to the best soul I can become.

Hi Half of Us! I am sorry that you feel upset by the way that this thread is being handled but, if you read PoeticBlue's post above (and my response to it), you will get an idea of just how many issues Lithuania's negative posts have been causing. I'll address your specific concerns below:

Firstly, nothing that Lithuania has posted here can be truly considered to be accurate, reputable information. Her links and quotes are really just spam, since, as Mac says, they don't really belong here. The information in those articles and videos cannot be confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless there is legitimate scientific information, proving that Sylvia Browne is a fraud, then it is not permissible to post such allegations against her on this website. Also, Lithuania specifically said that she "despised" Sylvia Browne - that is harsh, hateful language, and is never appropriate on our website. That is why so many members took issues with her.

When referring to people being able to connect to Spirit, please point me towards the post where I describe a person who you think could not connect. There have been so many posts in this thread, and I'd having trouble remembering exactly which one you mean. I'll be able to offer more insight once I remember the specifics.

I assume you primarily mean my comments against the Catholic Church? I'll admit, it is true that the church has done some good in recent years, but it is a very small amount compared to the millions of lives it has destroyed throughout the last two millennia. You'll have to forgive my bluntness, but Catholicism is the religion for which I have the least tolerance (other religions don't really bother me so much). I have nothing against the followers - those who are earnestly trying to learn and grow, but the doctrines of the Church stand as a bulwark against progress in many cases. Also, in a past life, I have reason to believe that I suffered personally at the hands of the Church, which doesn't help the situation.

I hope this helps!

[poeticblue]

Hi Half of Us! I am sorry that you feel upset by the way that this thread is being handled but, if you read PoeticBlue's post above (and my response to it), you will get an idea of just how many issues Lithuania's negative posts have been causing. I'll address your specific concerns below:

Firstly, nothing that Lithuania has posted here can be truly considered to be accurate, reputable information. Her links and quotes are really just spam, since, as Mac says, they don't really belong here. The information in those articles and videos cannot be confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless there is legitimate scientific information, proving that Sylvia Browne is a fraud, then it is not permissible to post such allegations against her on this website. Also, Lithuania specifically said that she "despised" Sylvia Browne - that is harsh, hateful language, and is never appropriate on our website. That is why so many members took issues with her.

When referring to people being able to connect to Spirit, please point me towards the post where I describe a person who you think could not connect. There have been so many posts in this thread, and I'd having trouble remembering exactly which one you mean. I'll be able to offer more insight once I remember the specifics.

I assume you primarily mean my comments against the Catholic Church? I'll admit, it is true that the church has done some good in recent years, but it is a very small amount compared to the millions of lives it has destroyed throughout the last two millennia. You'll have to forgive my bluntness, but Catholicism is the religion for which I have the least tolerance (other religions don't really bother me so much). I have nothing against the followers - those who are earnestly trying to learn and grow, but the doctrines of the Church stand as a bulwark against progress in many cases. Also, in a past life, I have reason to believe that I suffered personally at the hands of the Church, which doesn't help the situation.

I hope this helps!

And just to reply to your repsonse earlier.. I will try to calm down.

[WWE LOVER]

Lithuania had commented on my tribute to Rizwan thread, along with WWLO's thread today. I think it's a real person who just happens to really be against Sylvia Browne. But her grudge on this thread has continued on for long enough I would think (and I'm notorious for carrying grudges myself).

[Half of Us]

Hi Half of Us! I am sorry that you feel upset by the way that this thread is being handled but, if you read PoeticBlue's post above (and my response to it), you will get an idea of just how many issues Lithuania's negative posts have been causing. I'll address your specific concerns below:

Firstly, nothing that Lithuania has posted here can be truly considered to be accurate, reputable information. Her links and quotes are really just spam, since, as Mac says, they don't really belong here. The information in those articles and videos cannot be confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless there is legitimate scientific information, proving that Sylvia Browne is a fraud, then it is not permissible to post such allegations against her on this website. Also, Lithuania specifically said that she "despised" Sylvia Browne - that is harsh, hateful language, and is never appropriate on our website. That is why so many members took issues with her.

When referring to people being able to connect to Spirit, please point me towards the post where I describe a person who you think could not connect. There have been so many posts in this thread, and I'd having trouble remembering exactly which one you mean. I'll be able to offer more insight once I remember the specifics.

I assume you primarily mean my comments against the Catholic Church? I'll admit, it is true that the church has done some good in recent years, but it is a very small amount compared to the millions of lives it has destroyed throughout the last two millennia. You'll have to forgive my bluntness, but Catholicism is the religion for which I have the least tolerance (other religions don't really bother me so much). I have nothing against the followers - those who are earnestly trying to learn and grow, but the doctrines of the Church stand as a bulwark against progress in many cases. Also, in a past life, I have reason to believe that I suffered personally at the hands of the Church, which doesn't help the situation.

I hope this helps!

Andrew it was your post #17 on this thread. I am also suddenly getting very tired of this but I will always fight to hear everyone's opinions and Andrew, you know that.

I did not primarily mean your comments against the Catholic Church, there are plenty of negative comments on this site about it. I just wanted to point out there is tremendous good this church has done in the past and is still doing today.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's input. I am fascinated with people and this is an excellent group.

[poeticblue]

Lithuania had commented on my tribute to Rizwan thread, along with WWLO's thread today. I think it's a real person who just happens to really be against Sylvia Browne. But her grudge on this thread has continued on for long enough I would think (and I'm notorious for carrying grudges myself).

Well aren't you just very active tonight. :p

[WWE LOVER]

Well aren't you just very active tonight. :p

I still haven't lost any weight though. Boy that sucks...

[Andrew]

Ok, thank you, Half of Us! Well, recently I have done a lot of reading about psychic abilities and mediumship, and I am trying to develop these abilities myself actually. I have read, in several places, that negative emotions do block connections to Spirit. Chiefly, it seems, anger and grief are responsible for this. Other negative emotions though, such as fear, hatred, guilt, etc. can be responsible as well. You are right - someone who is so greedy would have trouble connecting to Spirit, but, it doesn't mean that it was always that way.

Here is my tentative theory about what happened to Sylvia Browne. I have come to believe that she was indeed a legitimate medium at some point in her earlier years, and was discovered for her skill. She became famous and all that went to her head. Instead of thinking of her abilities as coming from Spirit, she took responsibility for them herself, and got rather vain. Because of this, she slowly lost the ability that she originally had (yes, this can happen - I have read several accounts of it) and, as a consequence, she is essentially useless at this point. Her abilities have dried up. Remember, this is just a theory on my part. don't know if it is true - and I admit that I have no specific evidence pointing to it in Sylvia's case. It fits though, and this type of thing does happen.

[Carol and Mikey]

I am hesitant to post this, but here is Mikey's general view on this topic concerning mediums in general. (I hope I don't cause a problem. :) )
Mikey tells me that the the gift of "communication" is truly a gift from God. If the gift is used to gain personal fame and worldly things without the emphasis of love and helping others, it will diminish. If the gift is sincerely used to help others and show loving ways, the ability will flourish. He says the "gift of communication" needs to be respected. So who knows! Just one opinion. :)
Carol and mikey "in Spirit"

[Half of Us]

I agree 100% with Mikey and you too now, Andrew. My ire comes from one bad apple tainting the barrel so to speak, in addition to a real concern for bereaved people being duped. It makes total sense that a medium must be a positive energy to be granted this gift. Nothing else would make sense. Thanks all.

[TriciaA]

Absolutely Carol, I'm in total agreement, communication is truly a gift. There are some who do start out with good intentions 'I want to help others, I hope to bring comfort to those who have lost a loved one... but along the way they become very materialistic, it's all about them, their earnings and their ego. I have always said Spirit will strip these people of their gift.

[mac]

"I have always said Spirit will strip these people of their gift. "

But is there any clear evidence that this does actually happen? Or does it really mean that the practitioner will not be supported by those of higher spiritual elevation, left mostly to communicate with individuals who are still very close to the earth plane, discarnates of more limited spiritual progress?

Would a helper or guide withdraw from their association with the incarnate whose development they were intended to support? Might it be that our discarnate friends do not deny their support even though we believe such individuals are materialistic and not deserving of support? Even a materialistic practitioner may still be able to provide opportunities to understand that life goes on.

Would the withdrawal of communication support from such a practitioner be justified when the effect would be to deny the interests of an innocent enquirer?

[Half of Us]

"I have always said Spirit will strip these people of their gift. "

But is there any clear evidence that this does actually happen? Or does it really mean that the practitioner will not be supported by those of higher spiritual elevation, left mostly to communicate with individuals who are still very close to the earth plane, discarnates of more limited spiritual progress?

Would a helper or guide withdraw from their association with the incarnate whose development they were intended to support? Might it be that our discarnate friends do not deny their support even though we believe such individuals are materialistic and not deserving of support? Even a materialistic practitioner may still be able to provide opportunities to understand that life goes on.

Would the withdrawal of communication support from such a practitioner be justified when the effect would be to deny the interests of an innocent enquirer?

I would imagine it would be more likely the discarnate does not withdraw, but the practitioner is no longer able to speak the "language". I don't believe in "Do as I say, not as I do", so the value of any reading from anyone who does not reasonate with me as being kind and caring would be nil.

[Skye]

Absolutely Carol, I'm in total agreement, communication is truly a gift. There are some who do start out with good intentions 'I want to help others, I hope to bring comfort to those who have lost a loved one... but along the way they become very materialistic, it's all about them, their earnings and their ego. I have always said Spirit will strip these people of their gift.

Hi TriciaA

I understand your comments and can agree with all but the last sentence. I know of mediums who are not spiritually minded yet they can deliver some wonderful messages. Being a medium doesn't imply one has to be all positive, love and light. It means they have the ability to communicate with discarnate beings. Their actions or intentions may well be judged by humans but spirit will not judge them.

[Skye]

May I add that Spirit are not bereft of emotions in the afterlife, Spirit do care. They very much care how we treat and respond to each other in a loving way whether through mediumistic readings or life in general.

Spirit will be overcome with despair by the immoral actions people choose to follow. This is one reason why they have a desire to communicate with us, in the hope we can learn from their guidance. Spirit always endeavour to impress their thoughts upon the mind of a person in the hope of preventing them from causing untold harm. But, a person's determination to act in an unspiritual manner will over ride their impressions. People have free will and Spirit cannot intervene with the choices we make, even when they are aware grieving people are sadly being duped by others who act selfishly. Spirit know all too well that each person will judge their own actions when they arrive in the Spirit world, as they had too when they passed over.

The words of Jesus saying, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing" can be applicable here. A person's selfishness will have a lasting effect on their soul for no person's actions, deeds or words go unnoticed, all is recorded on to the soul and all will be accountable.

[Highlander]

Skye,

I do not claim to be an expert in what Spirits can or cannot do or how Spirits think or all of the ways in which Spirits work with us or advise us. In fact most of the times I feel like I'm working a giant jigsaw puzzle with a few pieces missing.
There is one thing however that I do know is absolutely true. Spirits are real.
I have personally had several "encounters" with Spirit, the most dramatic was the face to face visitation, including explicit instructions I was given on how to cure myself of diseases that doctors were unable to help me with. I talk about this in my first post on this forum. I wouldn't be here were it not for that episode. It was a complete mind-blower and would convert the most devout atheist or extreme skeptic on Earth.
Beyond that there are many questions, many of which are answered by you and several other people on this forum. Thanks to you all, I'm learning.

"The known is finite, the unknown infinite; intellectually we stand on an islet in the midst of an illimitable ocean of inexplicability. Our business in every generation is to reclaim a little more land." - T. H. Huxley, 1887

[WWE LOVER]

I do not claim to be an expert in what Spirits can or cannot do or how Spirits think or all of the ways in which Spirits work with us or advise us. In fact most of the times I feel like I'm working a giant jigsaw puzzle with a few pieces missing.
There is one thing however that I do know is absolutely true. Spirits are real.
I have personally had several "encounters" with Spirit, the most dramatic was the face to face visitation, including explicit instructions I was given on how to cure myself of diseases that doctors were unable to help me with. I talk about this in my first post on this forum. I wouldn't be here were it not for that episode. It was a complete mind-blower and would convert the most devout atheist or extreme skeptic on Earth.
Beyond that there are many questions, many of which are answered by you and several other people on this forum. Thanks to you all, I'm learning.



Dang nabbit.

To think, I still don't get visions, visitations, or anything else.

Like Rod Stewart once sang - Some guys have all the luck.

[Andrew]

Hi everyone! I am sure that many of you have noticed that Lithuania has been permanently banned from this website. We just want to stress that it was not Lithuania's opinions in this thread that lead to her banning. She was actually banned for several reasons:

1. Spamming:
It is true that some of Lithuania's links here could be considered spam, but they were not serious enough for her to be banned. Because of her spam in this thread, she was moderated so that the administrators had to approve all her posts before they became public. But, this evening, she created a duplicate account, with a username that was meant as a personal insult to me, and started to spam me with private messages. I traced the IP addresses and realized that the spam was coming from the same address of Lithuania's previous posts had come. This is one major reason why she was banned.

2. Hacking:
As I mentioned above, Lithuania's account was altered, as a consequence of her spamming, so that she could not post in real time. However, just a few hours after I restricted her permissions, Lithuania posted publicly. She should not have had the ability to do that without our approval. Quickly, I checked her user settings, and they had somehow been reset. I changed them again, and they were reset again. Only someone with [illegal] access to our severs and databases could have done this. Since nothing else was changed but Lithuania's account, it seems that Lithuania was the culprit.

So, once again, Lithuania was not banned because she didn't agree with the opinions of the staff here. She was banned for serious spam, personal attacks against members, and possible hacking into our website. We never take the banning of a member lightly, and we hate to restrict our members, but Lithuania left us with no choice.

[TriciaA]

I spent some time with my mother this afternoon and I mentioned this forum, I was talking about some Mediums, who further down the road loose the plot so to speak. She told me about a time when, a Medium she knew quite well, she was very, very good at giving evidence during her demonstrations of mediumship. There were never vague names, initials etc, she was spot on to the point of giving dates, street addresses etc, many were blown away. Anyway, over a period of time, she became very much the, big I am, and would flaunt her mediumship and saw herself very superior to others, a cut above the rest if you like.

My mother went to a Spiritualist Church one evening a few years ago, where she had at times also given demonstrations. This one time the Medium, whom my mother knew, was giving a demonstration. Apparently when she stood up to begin, it was easy to see she was struggling to communicate, she was unable to link with spirit. She ended up apologising to the audience and stepped down. That evening was her last evening.

Edited to add: I realise I have posted this under: Fraudulent mediums/psychics and perhaps this is on the wrong thread? This medium wasn't a fraud of course, she just lost her way, but at least she bowed-out gracefully:)

[mac]

Hi everyone! I am sure that many of you have noticed that Lithuania has been permanently banned from this website. We just want to stress that it was not Lithuania's opinions in this thread that lead to her banning. She was actually banned for several reasons:

1. Spamming:
It is true that some of Lithuania's links here could be considered spam, but they were not serious enough for her to be banned. Because of her spam in this thread, she was moderated so that the administrators had to approve all her posts before they became public. But, this evening, she created a duplicate account, with a username that was meant as a personal insult to me, and started to spam me with private messages. I traced the IP addresses and realized that the spam was coming from the same address of Lithuania's previous posts had come. This is one major reason why she was banned.

2. Hacking:
As I mentioned above, Lithuania's account was altered, as a consequence of her spamming, so that she could not post in real time. However, just a few hours after I restricted her permissions, Lithuania posted publicly. She should not have had the ability to do that without our approval. Quickly, I checked her user settings, and they had somehow been reset. I changed them again, and they were reset again. Only someone with [illegal] access to our severs and databases could have done this. Since nothing else was changed but Lithuania's account, it seems that Lithuania was the culprit.

So, once again, Lithuania was not banned because she didn't agree with the opinions of the staff here. She was banned for serious spam, personal attacks against members, and possible hacking into our website. We never take the banning of a member lightly, and we hate to restrict our members, but Lithuania left us with no choice.

I'm shocked to learn of the banning of lithuania but even more shocked to learn the reasons for it. The aspect of system interference leaves me wondering about the motives of anyone who would do such a thing. It's nasty and disrespectful in the extreme to use one's skills in such a way and for such a purpose and calls into question the reasons the member joined the website in the first place.

very sad

[mac]

I spent some time with my mother this afternoon and I mentioned this forum, I was talking about some Mediums, who further down the road loose the plot so to speak. She told me about a time when, a Medium she knew quite well, she was very, very good at giving evidence during her demonstrations of mediumship. There were never vague names, initials etc, she was spot on to the point of giving dates, street addresses etc, many were blown away. Anyway, over a period of time, she became very much the, big I am, and would flaunt her mediumship and saw herself very superior to others, a cut above the rest if you like.

My mother went to a Spiritualist Church one evening a few years ago, where she had at times also given demonstrations. This one time the Medium, whom my mother knew, was giving a demonstration. Apparently when she stood up to begin, it was easy to see she was struggling to communicate, she was unable to link with spirit. She ended up apologising to the audience and stepped down. That evening was her last evening.

Edited to add: I realise I have posted this under: Fraudulent mediums/psychics and perhaps this is on the wrong thread? This medium wasn't a fraud of course, she just lost her way, but at least she bowed-out gracefully:)

Whatever the reason(s) for the loss of communication I would have the highest respect for anyone with the integrity to admit they have no link and then step down.

Do you know what the eventual outcome was - did communication ever re-establish?

[TriciaA]

She never did platform work again Mac. No doubt it shook her up having that experience, as you can imagine going from one who was top-notch, to basically not getting anything more, especially it happening in front of an audience. She did the right thing by not continuing, many would not..

[Fasaga]

She never did platform work again Mac. No doubt it shook her up having that experience, as you can imagine going from one who was top-notch, to basically not getting anything more, especially it happening in front of an audience. She did the right thing by not continuing, many would not..

It makes perfect sense that one's ego would alter their level of vibrational energy to such an extent to then cloud and obscure clear communications with spirit. Which then leads me to beleive that the loss of communication wasn't a case of having it taken away, like a punishment, but loosing it through altering one's own state. This must then be reversable to regain communication unless other human emotions are standing in the way:- embarrasment, humiliation etc. all attached to ego.

[Skye]

My mother went to a Spiritualist Church one evening a few years ago, where she had at times also given demonstrations. This one time the Medium, whom my mother knew, was giving a demonstration. Apparently when she stood up to begin, it was easy to see she was struggling to communicate, she was unable to link with spirit. She ended up apologising to the audience and stepped down. That evening was her last evening.

Edited to add: I realise I have posted this under: Fraudulent mediums/psychics and perhaps this is on the wrong thread? This medium wasn't a fraud of course, she just lost her way, but at least she bowed-out gracefully:)

I also applaud this medium for being honest and admitting she wasn't getting any Spirit communication. As you say TriciaA, not many do and some will work on a psychic level and claim it is coming from spirit, which is something I totally abhor.

[Andrew]

I'm shocked to learn of the banning of lithuania but even more shocked to learn the reasons for it. The aspect of system interference leaves me wondering about the motives of anyone who would do such a thing. It's nasty and disrespectful in the extreme to use one's skills in such a way and for such a purpose and calls into question the reasons the member joined the website in the first place.

very sad

I agree, Mac - it was very shocking! Lithuania seemed to be perfectly peaceful member during the couple of months she has been here. Then, out of nowhere, she just seemed to go crazy in this thread. Perhaps this conversation struck a nerve, personally, with her. Who knows? It's not really our place to speculate, I suppose.

Also, I do want to point out that we do not actually know whether or not she hacked into our website. It is probable, and I don't know of any other way that her account could be reset like that, but there is no tangible proof. We do, however, have definite proof of her having spammed us, and having abused our private messaging system with offensive language.

You're right - it's all very sad.

[Wonderer]

Also, I do want to point out that we do not actually know whether or not she hacked into our website. It is probable, and I don't know of any other way that her account could be reset like that, but there is no tangible proof. We do, however, have definite proof of her having spammed us, and having abused our private messaging system with offensive language.


I have noticed strange things going on at that time.

Identity was logged on (which means either his account was hacked or his sister was on) and a new user with disrespectful name to Andrew was created. Lithuania was banned at this stage but was online too. I had taken a screen shot.

Agree, it's sad.

96

[TriciaA]

That's right, 'embarrasment, humiliation etc.. but, the loss of communication, i.e. the communication given to her by spirit, was no longer given, therefore she was unable to pass any messages on from spirit to those seeking evidence. It was stopped.

[TriciaA]

Agreed Skye

[Andrew]

I have noticed strange things going on at that time.

Identity was logged on (which means either his account was hacked or his sister was on) and a new user with disrespectful name to Andrew was created. Lithuania was banned at this stage but was online too. I had taken a screen shot.

Agree, it's sad.

Hi Wonderer! Thank you for you vigilance! That new user, with the disrespectful name, was the one that inundated me with spam private messages - that was Lithuania and the account was banned. Lithuania was banned just around that time, but she could still go on her account. When you are banned, so can sign on, it just won't let you do/read anything.

That was actually me on Identity's account. A member had approached me with a concern that someone was using Identity's account, so I went onto it to see if there was any trace of use. I couldn't find anything. Identity's account was being used a few days ago though, and we are not sure by whom.

[mac]

She never did platform work again Mac. No doubt it shook her up having that experience, as you can imagine going from one who was top-notch, to basically not getting anything more, especially it happening in front of an audience. She did the right thing by not continuing, many would not..


That's a shame for those who might have benefitted....

[Skye]

I doubt the medium that you've mentioned Tricia isn't the only one to not receive communication from Spirit during a demonstration of mediumship. I've heard of this happening before in front of a congregation. Perhaps this is why it's said that communication with Spirits, is viewed as an experiment, as there's no guarantee any Spirit will draw close. It may be a rare occurrence but it would appear this can happen.

[TriciaA]

This medium Skye, worked for years giving demonstrations in front of a congregation, no one could fault her. A medium I knew very well, was also top notch, she has since passed on, her work was amazing also. A very down to earth lady, great sense of humour when giving a demonstration, she kept her feet planted firmly on the ground, right up until the day she passed. I have to say, it's a rare occasion to witness such a medium.

[TriciaA]

It is a shame Mac, as many did benefit, but I suppose there comes a time, as hers did, when enough is enough.

As Mikey said: 'If the gift is used to gain personal fame and worldly things without the emphasis of love and helping others, it will diminish' The gift of communication needs to be respected

[mac]

It is a shame Mac, as many did benefit, but I suppose there comes a time, as hers did, when enough is enough.

As Mikey said: 'If the gift is used to gain personal fame and worldly things without the emphasis of love and helping others, it will diminish' The gift of communication needs to be respected

In the case of this particular medium it's reasonable to conclude that the reasons suggested by Mikey did seem to be the cause of her mediumship fading away. Maybe it was intended to be a wake-up call but ended in a way that was not intended though? Had she realised she'd gone off-course she might have changed her ways and returned to how things used to be.

We'll never know....

[Skye]

I'm not disbelieving you Tricia, it may well be that this medium did lose her ability to communicate for all time. I just wonder who it may have been that accused her mediumship of being for material gain. Nonetheless, the folly of humans is to pre-judge people for being less 'spiritual' because it conflicts with our own perception of what spirituality is or isn't deemed to be.

I have certain prejudices in life, as I assume other people do, but this shouldn't infer I'm any less or any more spiritual than another. Outward appearances are deceptive and can often mislead people into making judgement, which can in reality be false. I suspect a number of people have been asked on the other side, "What are you doing here?" by those who believed such and such a person had no spiritual integrity when living on the earth plane.

[TriciaA]

It makes perfect sense that one's ego would alter their level of vibrational energy to such an extent to then cloud and obscure clear communications with spirit. Which then leads me to beleive that the loss of communication wasn't a case of having it taken away, like a punishment, but loosing it through altering one's own state. This must then be reversable to regain communication unless other human emotions are standing in the way:- embarrasment, humiliation etc. all attached to ego.
That's right Fasaga 'loosing it through altering one's own state' I'm sure this happens quite a bit, the ego can alter the vibrations that's for sure.

[TriciaA]

I recently came across this, it makes perfect sense: Every medium’s greatest trap is Ego. As you grow, so does your ‘Ego’. But remember, when Ego grows with your mediumistic abilities, you will reach a plateau and not ascend. In fact what will then happen is that the Ego continues to grow but the ability does not, as a result of which, more and more imperfections enter into your work. More and more of those who come to you, will be aware that not every word is purely channeled. More and more the Ego will insist on your Ego having its way If you get complacent, so secretly will your Ego slip ahead of your abilities that you will not know when it happen.

Ego is two-pronged. It is not only your physical reactions and feelings, it is also VANITY. Vanity that you can do what another cannot, that you know what another does not. And that is your greatest obstacle to your growth.

[Fasaga]

I recently came across this, it makes perfect sense: Every medium’s greatest trap is Ego. As you grow, so does your ‘Ego’. But remember, when Ego grows with your mediumistic abilities, you will reach a plateau and not ascend. In fact what will then happen is that the Ego continues to grow but the ability does not, as a result of which, more and more imperfections enter into your work. More and more of those who come to you, will be aware that not every word is purely channeled. More and more the Ego will insist on your Ego having its way If you get complacent, so secretly will your Ego slip ahead of your abilities that you will not know when it happen.

Ego is two-pronged. It is not only your physical reactions and feelings, it is also VANITY. Vanity that you can do what another cannot, that you know what another does not. And that is your greatest obstacle to your growth.

Thanks TriciaA

I would also draw a correllation between how we are "not Judged by Spirit but Judge Ourselves" both during life and at the Life Review and the impact of Ego on Ability - are these individuals the cause of the loss of their own ability through recognising their own unintentional selfish endeavours and subconsciously stripping themselves of their abilities.

For the same reasoning that we are told we are not Judged by Spirit, I believe we are not Punished by Spirit also. What we do we do to ourselves.

[TriciaA]

Absolutely and there is no harsher judge than oneself Fasaga.

[paranormal1]

Have a good weekend Andrew and God Bless Merica and its constitution which guarantees freedom of speech.

[Andrew]

Have a good weekend Andrew and God Bless Merica and its constitution which guarantees freedom of speech.

And, of course, my Canadian friend, God Save Her Majesty, the Queen of Canada! :) Actually, despite being an American, I consider myself a Constitutional Monarchist.

By the way, the right of free speech means that you cannot be persecuted by the American Government for your opinions, or coerced by it into changing this your opinions - it has nothing to do with me deleting your posts. This is private property, and the only rights users have here are the ones we grant them. To use your political terms, my friend, Roberta and I form the Monarchy of this website. Fortunately, we're a benevolent one!

[WWE LOVER]

And, of course, my Canadian friend, God Save Her Majesty, the Queen of Canada! :) Actually, despite being an American, I consider myself a Constitutional Monarchist.

By the way, the right of free speech means that you cannot be persecuted by the American Government for your opinions, or coerced by it into changing this your opinions - it has nothing to do with me deleting your posts. This is private property, and the only rights users have here are the ones we grant them. To use your political terms, my friend, Roberta and I form the Monarchy of this website. Fortunately, we're a benevolent one!

What about the other admins? I never see them around, except for one time I saw AdamAlter on here.

[Andrew]

What about the other admins? I never see them around, except for one time I saw AdamAlter on here.

Hi WWE LOVER! Technically speaking, LauraAlter and AdamAlter are the creators of the website and, thus, administrators. They are very busy and don't come on much. Thomas is also an administrator, and was instrumental in this website's creation as well. But he hasn't had much time either lately. So, that leaves Roberta and me to watch over the website. I'm the only administrator who was not involved in the creation of the website. I joined about six months later, as a regular member, and was eventually promoted to my current position here.

[WWE LOVER]

Hi WWE LOVER! Technically speaking, LauraAlter and AdamAlter are the creators of the website and, thus, administrators. They are very busy and don't come on much. Thomas is also an administrator, and was instrumental in this website's creation as well. But he hasn't had much time either lately. So, that leaves Roberta and me to watch over the website. I'm the only administrator who was not involved in the creation of the website. I joined about six months later, as a regular member, and was eventually promoted to my current position here.

For Laura and Adam, are their last names Alter? Or do they call themselves this because, on their wedding day, one left the other at the alter? (spelling)

[Fasaga]

Firstly, predictions of the future comes from psychic abilities, not mediumistic abilities. So, at worst, this proves that she is a lousy psychic. It doesn't prove anything about her ability to communicate with the afterlife - that's a completely different area of skill. It would be like saying someone who couldn't speak, because they don't know how to read. The two skills are connected, but don't depend on each other necessarily. Mediums get messages through their guides to other spirits and back. Psychics access their higher self for information. A lot of people can do both.

.

Andrew

I'm just going back over this thread to see what and where it deteriorated and I saw your quote above. I want to confirm this with you as I always thought that Spirt would be able to predict the future, and if chooses to or is allowed to could relay that prediction through mediumship communication. I didn't think it was exclusively an ability of a psychic.

[Fasaga]

Andrew

I'm just going back over this thread to see what and where it deteriorated and I saw your quote above. I want to confirm this with you as I always thought that Spirt would be able to predict the future, and if chooses to or is allowed to could relay that prediction through mediumship communication. I didn't think it was exclusively an ability of a psychic.

Actually, thinking on that a bit more, Spirit would already know the future and would have far greater ability to pass on forecasts rather than mere predictions through a medium.

[Fasaga]

And, of course, my Canadian friend, God Save Her Majesty, the Queen of Canada! :) Actually, despite being an American, I consider myself a Constitutional Monarchist.

By the way, the right of free speech means that you cannot be persecuted by the American Government for your opinions, or coerced by it into changing this your opinions - it has nothing to do with me deleting your posts. This is private property, and the only rights users have here are the ones we grant them. To use your political terms, my friend, Roberta and I form the Monarchy of this website. Fortunately, we're a benevolent one!

Quick question Andrew, As this is Private Property, I take it there are individuals responsible for it, does a user have right of recourse if they are slandered or derided on this site, for instance insinuating they are drug addicts or just mental?

[mac]

Hi WWE LOVER! Technically speaking, LauraAlter and AdamAlter are the creators of the website and, thus, administrators. They are very busy and don't come on much. Thomas is also an administrator, and was instrumental in this website's creation as well. But he hasn't had much time either lately. So, that leaves Roberta and me to watch over the website. I'm the only administrator who was not involved in the creation of the website. I joined about six months later, as a regular member, and was eventually promoted to my current position here.

Hard enough work when there are more moderators but most of the routine moderation must be falling on you. You've got a very demanding 'job', Andrew, and I don't envy you it....

Not wanting to sound sycophantic but comparing what I've seen of your moderation with that on the many other websites I use (and have used in the past) you do a very fair job overall and especially so lately with the difficult situation you faced. :D

[mac]

Andrew

I'm just going back over this thread to see what and where it deteriorated and I saw your quote above. I want to confirm this with you as I always thought that Spirt would be able to predict the future, and if chooses to or is allowed to could relay that prediction through mediumship communication. I didn't think it was exclusively an ability of a psychic.


Predicting the future - or more accurately one of the many possible futures - is not something that can be done with accuracy. Or it's yet to be proven that it can occur.... It's highly debatable that a psychic can predict the future any more accurately than we mere mortals might. Mediums are in no better a position than other practitioners.

A 'sensitive' - someone with the attributes of being able to communicate with discarnates - might have contact with one or more spirit-side individuals who closely monitor what's happening on the earth plane. With the possibility/likelihood that certain of these discarnates will have a far wider perspective of world events (and potentially 'insider knowledge' as to what's planned/intended for this world) there is the very real possibility that certain sensitives will/might be able to piece-together some of what's upcoming.

That might reasonably be seen as one successful prediction of the future but it doesn't mean any particular future is certain.

[Andrew]

For Laura and Adam, are their last names Alter? Or do they call themselves this because, on their wedding day, one left the other at the alter? (spelling)

I'm not really sure, to be honest, WWE LOVER. I don't know them very well.

[Andrew]

Quick question Andrew, As this is Private Property, I take it there are individuals responsible for it, does a user have right of recourse if they are slandered or derided on this site, for instance insinuating they are drug addicts or just mental?

Hi, Fasaga! While this is private property, each user is solely responsible for what he posts here. The administration here is not responsible or liable for any misconduct that occurs here. We make sure to state that in the user agreement (http://afterlifeforums.com/showthread.php/625-(Updated)-Registration-Agreement). So, in other words, if you break the law here (either Australia's laws or those of the United States), you, and only you, can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

It would really depend on the accusations at hand. If the accusations, such as being a drug addict or "mental" were meant to be degrading or derogative, then we would remove them and apply some type of disciplinary action to the user who posted them. If, however, that user was merely suggesting that another user seek help because, from his posts, he seemed as though he was suffering from a drug addiction or mental illness, then we probably wouldn't do anything. Is this what you mean by a "right of recourse?"

[Andrew]

Andrew

I'm just going back over this thread to see what and where it deteriorated and I saw your quote above. I want to confirm this with you as I always thought that Spirt would be able to predict the future, and if chooses to or is allowed to could relay that prediction through mediumship communication. I didn't think it was exclusively an ability of a psychic.

I am going to stick my thoughts on this. The evidence does seem to indicate that most people have an ability to do predict the future, with accuracy, to some extent. There are several examples of this R. Craig Hogan's book, Your Eternal Self. I have also read many books by psychics and most of them do say that everyone has the ability to some extent. Some of the authors hold classes, helping people to develop these abilities, and the only people who cannot do it are the ones who are either trying too hard or who don't stick with it long enough.

I have also seen a couple of personal examples of accurate psychics can be. Some of these predictions took place, accurately, seventy or more years after they were predicted!

We must remember that the Higher Self exists outside of time. So, it knows what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen. If there is no impediment (such as a pre-life agreement not to channel this information), then there is no good reason why we could not have access to this information. I think that there is enough evidence to conclusively decide that this is possible.

[Andrew]

Hard enough work when there are more moderators but most of the routine moderation must be falling on you. You've got a very demanding 'job', Andrew, and I don't envy you it....

Not wanting to sound sycophantic but comparing what I've seen of your moderation with that on the many other websites I use (and have used in the past) you do a very fair job overall and especially so lately with the difficult situation you faced. :D

Hi Mac! Yes, I do perform a lot of the routine tasks and moderation that needs to be done on a regular basis. It's not really that much work, since this website is still rather small, but it can be time-consuming. I enjoy helping to maintain the website though, so I don't mind so much.

I'm glad that you think that our decisions have been fair and balanced - that's always our goal. We try to enforce our policies in a reasonable manner, sticking more to the spirit of the law, rather than the letter. Our need to apply disciplinary restrictions to Lithuania and RudeAwakening have really been some of the first major issues we've had.

[Roberta Grimes]

Dear WWE LOVER and Fasaga, your curiosity about the mechanics of this site surprises me, but perhaps it shouldn't. To answer your questions:

1) Adam and Thomas are much-beloved family members who helped me start this site because I am so old that I basically still write with a quill and I could not have done it without them. I am so grateful for their kindness!

2) All websites are privately owned, whether by corporations (a few of the biggest) or by individuals (probably 99.7% of them). They are public space. It's as if you had a big front yard and you put up a sign on your lawn beside a bench under beautiful trees saying, "Come and sit if you like but at your own risk," and you came in and sat and someone walked by and insulted you. Andrew is right: your recourse (if any) is against the person who did the talking. That being said, we want our front lawn to be a safe place for everyone who visits it, so we try hard to keep people from insulting one another. We do the best that we can manage!

[Roberta Grimes]

I am going to stick my thoughts on this. The evidence does seem to indicate that most people have an ability to do predict the future, with accuracy, to some extent. There are several examples of this R. Craig Hogan's book, Your Eternal Self. I have also read many books by psychics and most of them do say that everyone has the ability to some extent. Some of the authors hold classes, helping people to develop these abilities, and the only people who cannot do it are the ones who are either trying too hard or who don't stick with it long enough.

I have also seen a couple of personal examples of accurate psychics can be. Some of these predictions took place, accurately, seventy or more years after they were predicted!

We must remember that the Higher Self exists outside of time. So, it knows what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen. If there is no impediment (such as a pre-life agreement not to channel this information), then there is no good reason why we could not have access to this information. I think that there is enough evidence to conclusively decide that this is possible.

Just to add to what Andrew says here, dear Fasaga, predicting the future is a complex thing! Here is why:

1) Time is an illusion. The implications of this are boggling to imagine, and I don't think that anyone really understands them as yet, but nevertheless it is a fact that time is an illusion that is related just to the physics of this material dimension. In most of reality - including where our after-death communicators are - it simply does not exist as we know it.

2) Neither past nor future seems to be fixed. There is evidence that everything is happening at the same time, which should make the future easy to predict; but there also is some evidence that past, present, and future are actively affecting one another (for good or ill), which would make it impossible to know anything for certain about any time, past or future. Ever.

3) Those who "predict the future" seem to be tapping into a general sense of a future that is not firmly fixed. Anyone who reads Edgar Cayce's predictions made decades ago for periods that were in his future but are now in our past can get some sense of this. His prediction that the north and south poles would shift at the turn of this century, for example, was not literally true... but then the poles began to move, and now - at this moment - the north pole is streaking southward... at a pace of about 40 miles per year.

4) It is possible that there are infinite futures. Or so says one physics theory that is currently in vogue. Whenever a butterfly in Mongolia flaps its wings once, a whole new universe is created! With so much going on everywhere on earth at any given moment, millions of universes have come into being in just the time it took for me to type this sentence ;-). I don't buy this theory, of course, nor should you. It is yet one more attempt by physicists to avoid accepting all the implications of quantum physics. But this theory is out there. So those passing information to living psychics would be left with the impossible task of determining which of the trillions upon trillions of universes that likely would exist by then is going to be your actual future!

[WWE LOVER]

Hard enough work when there are more moderators but most of the routine moderation must be falling on you. You've got a very demanding 'job', Andrew, and I don't envy you it....

Not wanting to sound sycophantic but comparing what I've seen of your moderation with that on the many other websites I use (and have used in the past) you do a very fair job overall and especially so lately with the difficult situation you faced. :D

Hey, you ought to see that football site I told you about, mac. It's almost like there are no rules there. There are tons of people with multiple usernames, everyone insults one another, the member makes fun of the admins on a daily basis, etc. All hell breaks loose over there.

[WWE LOVER]

Dear WWE LOVER and Fasaga, your curiosity about the mechanics of this site surprises me, but perhaps it shouldn't. To answer your questions:

1) Adam and Thomas are much-beloved family members who helped me start this site because I am so old that I basically still write with a quill and I could not have done it without them. I am so grateful for their kindness!

2) All websites are privately owned, whether by corporations (a few of the biggest) or by individuals (probably 99.7% of them). They are public space. It's as if you had a big front yard and you put up a sign on your lawn beside a bench under beautiful trees saying, "Come and sit if you like but at your own risk," and you came in and sat and someone walked by and insulted you. Andrew is right: your recourse (if any) is against the person who did the talking. That being said, we want our front lawn to be a safe place for everyone who visits it, so we try hard to keep people from insulting one another. We do the best that we can manage!

Mornin' Grimey.

What do you mean you're old? Last I heard, you are a sweetheart who is middle-aged.

As for being computer unsavvy, join the club. I ain't good with them either.

Despite the fact that forums are privately owned, you are always going to have people insulting each other no matter what. It can't be avoided entirely. Sure we don't necessarily want members to start insulting one another, but it's going to happen eventually. It's human nature. I have an uncle who used to say, "It doesn't matter what door you open, there is always going to be sh*t that comes through it." Another uncle used to say to me, "You have to take the bitter with the sweet."

If you own a bar, you can't expect to avoid fights all the time. Forums are the same way, and I visit some that are WAY WORSE THAN THIS. These aren't excuses; just simply telling you the way it is.

Now forgetting the professionalism here and just speaking personally, I couldn't care less if someone insults me here, or even if I get called the next Hitler. Haters gonna hate. I'll just use my dry sense of homour to swing it around on them.

Just remember Roberta - Brother Love looooooooves youuuuuuuu!

[mac]

Hey, you ought to see that football site I told you about, mac. It's almost like there are no rules there. There are tons of people with multiple usernames, everyone insults one another, the member makes fun of the admins on a daily basis, etc. All hell breaks loose over there.

I don't think that kind of website would suit me....

It sounds more like a cyber bar with too many drunks, no closing-time and no bouncers .... It must fill a need, I guess, for the individuals who enjoy that kind of thing but I ain't one of 'em.

horses for courses

[mac]

Just to add to what Andrew says here, dear Fasaga, predicting the future is a complex thing! Here is why:

1) Time is an illusion. The implications of this are boggling to imagine, and I don't think that anyone really understands them as yet, but nevertheless it is a fact that time is an illusion that is related just to the physics of this material dimension. In most of reality - including where our after-death communicators are - it simply does not exist as we know it.

2) Neither past nor future seems to be fixed. There is evidence that everything is happening at the same time, which should make the future easy to predict; but there also is some evidence that past, present, and future are actively affecting one another (for good or ill), which would make it impossible to know anything for certain about any time, past or future. Ever.

3) Those who "predict the future" seem to be tapping into a general sense of a future that is not firmly fixed. Anyone who reads Edgar Cayce's predictions made decades ago for periods that were in his future but are now in our past can get some sense of this. His prediction that the north and south poles would shift at the turn of this century, for example, was not literally true... but then the poles began to move, and now - at this moment - the north pole is streaking southward... at a pace of about 40 miles per year.

4) It is possible that there are infinite futures. Or so says one physics theory that is currently in vogue. Whenever a butterfly in Mongolia flaps its wings once, a whole new universe is created! With so much going on everywhere on earth at any given moment, millions of universes have come into being in just the time it took for me to type this sentence ;-). I don't buy this theory, of course, nor should you. It is yet one more attempt by physicists to avoid accepting all the implications of quantum physics. But this theory is out there. So those passing information to living psychics would be left with the impossible task of determining which of the trillions upon trillions of universes that likely would exist by then is going to be your actual future!

There are some good and interesting points here. I'll pick up on a few if you don't mind....

points 1 & 2) The time issue I find a red herring. It's far easier I find to think of the future in terms of events we have yet to learn about, the past being those we know something about. That allows for the non-linear aspects, the continuous loop, no future, no past scenarios but what we experience as humankind can essentially be seen as linear and the time theories don't have any practical impact on our short life spans.

point 3) For me it's a total nonsense to say there's a single, immutable future and hence 'the future' can't be predicted although aspects of potential futures may sometimes be discerned in advance of their happening....

point 4) Quantum physics generally doesn't significantly affect real-world relationships, the way we lead our day-to-day lives. Quantum effects are fine for physicists to investigate and some of their research may have outcomes which affect our lives but mostly not in the sense of 'predicting the future'.

[mac]

"Forums are the same way, and I visit some that are WAY WORSE THAN THIS. These aren't excuses; just simply telling you the way it is."

That's damning with faint praise..... For other forums to be, quote: "...way worse than this." this forum would have to be bad to start with....

More accurate might be: "Forums are the same way, and I visit some that are really bad" etc.

For my own part I've used websites which were not member-friendly at all, badly run, controlled by cliques and sometimes chaotic. My use of the past tense is deliberate - once I'd sussed out what poor websites they were, I withdrew from being an active member or even continuing to visit just as a reader.

One might wonder why others don't do similarly and I can only assume that they do like the things I don't.....

[mac]

Dear WWE LOVER and Fasaga, your curiosity about the mechanics of this site surprises me, but perhaps it shouldn't. To answer your questions:

1) Adam and Thomas are much-beloved family members who helped me start this site because I am so old that I basically still write with a quill and I could not have done it without them. I am so grateful for their kindness!

2) All websites are privately owned, whether by corporations (a few of the biggest) or by individuals (probably 99.7% of them). They are public space. It's as if you had a big front yard and you put up a sign on your lawn beside a bench under beautiful trees saying, "Come and sit if you like but at your own risk," and you came in and sat and someone walked by and insulted you. Andrew is right: your recourse (if any) is against the person who did the talking. That being said, we want our front lawn to be a safe place for everyone who visits it, so we try hard to keep people from insulting one another. We do the best that we can manage!

What a beautifully simple way to express things!

[Skye]

Andrew

I'm just going back over this thread to see what and where it deteriorated and I saw your quote above. I want to confirm this with you as I always thought that Spirt would be able to predict the future, and if chooses to or is allowed to could relay that prediction through mediumship communication. I didn't think it was exclusively an ability of a psychic.


Actually, thinking on that a bit more, Spirit would already know the future and would have far greater ability to pass on forecasts rather than mere predictions through a medium.

Hi Fasaga,

When a medium works they use a combination of their mediumistic and psychic ability. The purpose of mediumship is to prove evidence of our survival and is not to be confused with that of psychics or fortune telling. That being said during a demonstration of mediumship, or in a private sitting, spirit can and do at times make predictions so, it's not just a medium's psychic ability that is responsible.

As for time there is no past and no future, there is only the present. Our relatives and friends in the spirit world are able to see a little further down the road, and through clairvoyance or clairaudience they can warn us, or, tell us about events which are to be relevant in our lives that have not yet happened. Having been made aware of certain upcoming events, we humans are likely to foresee it as appertaining to the future because of our relationship to time.

If a psychic is giving a prediction then the presence of a spirit communicator would be absent. However, some psychics have given accurate predictions. You are correct in your thoughts that predictions are not exclusively an ability of a psychic.

[Carol and Mikey]

Mikey once again sticks to his intial statement that "specific predictions" about the future is just not in the cards. :) He says general statements can be made, but he again questions where the info is coming from when people make "specific predictions". There are way to many factors that come in to play that "alter" things along the way. Life plans and events are constantly "tweaked" as we move along on our journeys. We have a general plan that we come with of things we need to learn through "experience" here. But things do "adjust". Plain and simple. For every action there is a reaction that we cannot control. Freewill alters the reaction . People may get "very lucky" with predictions according to Mikey, but he wants to know "what is the consistency" with their predictions? That is the real question. Mikey says with regards to Heaven, "specific predictions" just doesn't happen. Just one opinion. :)
Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"
Skye,
Just saw your post and you are right. I had 2 different premonitions that something was going to happen to Mikey, the last one being 2 months before the accident. I know I was being warned by the "spiritual world" of what was going to come. BUT, it was a general thought or "warning" that something bad was going to happen, but I received no "specifics" in the details of how it was to unfold or when . That is the difference Mikey is talking about. General versus specific. :)
Carol

[Fasaga]

Predicting the future - or more accurately one of the many possible futures - is not something that can be done with accuracy. Or it's yet to be proven that it can occur.... It's highly debatable that a psychic can predict the future any more accurately than we mere mortals might. Mediums are in no better a position than other practitioners.

A 'sensitive' - someone with the attributes of being able to communicate with discarnates - might have contact with one or more spirit-side individuals who closely monitor what's happening on the earth plane. With the possibility/likelihood that certain of these discarnates will have a far wider perspective of world events (and potentially 'insider knowledge' as to what's planned/intended for this world) there is the very real possibility that certain sensitives will/might be able to piece-together some of what's upcoming.

That might reasonably be seen as one successful prediction of the future but it doesn't mean any particular future is certain.

Thanks Mac, that's what I thought. I know the future isn't set in stone and has many possible outcomes, I was just thrown by Andrews comment.

[Skye]

Skye,
Just saw your post and you are right. I had 2 different premonitions that something was going to happen to Mikey, the last one being 2 months before the accident. I know I was being warned by the "spiritual world" of what was going to come. BUT, it was a general thought or "warning" that something bad was going to happen, but I received no "specifics" in the details of how it was to unfold or when . That is the difference Mikey is talking about. General versus specific. :)
Carol

Hi Carol, I understand what you are saying about generalisations versus specific information. But, a premonition differs from a prediction. I sat in a circle once with a few friends, and one person received a premonition of a female who appeared as if she was considering committing suicide. They saw the movement of the sea, picket fencing and her car. They also saw her dead body on the beach and could describe her. A week or two later reports of her passing appeared in the media. Not one of us at the time could understand why we would receive a premonition when there is nothing we could do to help. Apparently many premonitions are vague in nature. It could be that we temporarily tune into a person's thoughts because the power of thought after all is a living thing.

I have had experience whereby spirit communicators themselves specifically relay information about events that will happen. I'm not suggesting our loved ones will foretell a death to another relative. They wouldn't say "Your mother is going to die in 3 days." This could cause untold harm or fear on to another soul, and imo is irresponsible. But they do mention other events where danger can be prevented. Or joyous accounts such as predicting the birth of a new born son or daughter when no one is pregnant. Yes, this type of information can come from psychic ability but when one hears the spirit voice, or receives the image from your relative in spirit, this is not psychic.

These 2 events are mentioned for simplicity.

[Fasaga]

Hi Fasaga,

When a medium works they use a combination of their mediumistic and psychic ability. The purpose of mediumship is to prove evidence of our survival and is not to be confused with that of psychics or fortune telling. That being said during a demonstration of mediumship, or in a private sitting, spirit can and do at times make predictions so, it's not just a medium's psychic ability that is responsible.

As for time there is no past and no future, there is only the present. Our relatives and friends in the spirit world are able to see a little further down the road, and through clairvoyance or clairaudience they can warn us, or, tell us about events which are to be relevant in our lives that have not yet happened. Having been made aware of certain upcoming events, we humans are likely to foresee it as appertaining to the future because of our relationship to time.

If a psychic is giving a prediction then the presence of a spirit communicator would be absent. However, some psychics have given accurate predictions. You are correct in your thoughts that predictions are not exclusively an ability of a psychic.

Hi Skye
Thanks for your clarrifications here, It's as i thought, and Spirit has the ability as you say to look a little further down the path.

[Fasaga]

Mikey once again sticks to his intial statement that "specific predictions" about the future is just not in the cards. :) He says general statements can be made, but he again questions where the info is coming from when people make "specific predictions". There are way to many factors that come in to play that "alter" things along the way. Life plans and events are constantly "tweaked" as we move along on our journeys. We have a general plan that we come with of things we need to learn through "experience" here. But things do "adjust". Plain and simple. For every action there is a reaction that we cannot control. Freewill alters the reaction . People may get "very lucky" with predictions according to Mikey, but he wants to know "what is the consistency" with their predictions? That is the real question. Mikey says with regards to Heaven, "specific predictions" just doesn't happen. Just one opinion. :)
Carol and Mikey "in Spirit"
Skye,
Just saw your post and you are right. I had 2 different premonitions that something was going to happen to Mikey, the last one being 2 months before the accident. I know I was being warned by the "spiritual world" of what was going to come. BUT, it was a general thought or "warning" that something bad was going to happen, but I received no "specifics" in the details of how it was to unfold or when . That is the difference Mikey is talking about. General versus specific. :)
Carol

Thank Carol and Mikey,

I should probably qualify my interest in this topic, it is not that I have any interest or desire to know specific trivial details of minor predictions that relate to me or my own. I'm far more interested in Global Issues and the path we are on as a species and the true importance of changing the way we treat this World. There are very different paths we can follow and I am looking for any Spiritual Prompts as to the outcomes one way or another.

[Skye]

Thank Carol and Mikey,

I should probably qualify my interest in this topic, it is not that I have any interest or desire to know specific trivial details of minor predictions that relate to me or my own. I'm far more interested in Global Issues and the path we are on as a species and the true importance of changing the way we treat this World. There are very different paths we can follow and I am looking for any Spiritual Prompts as to the outcomes one way or another.

I suspect this type of information would come from physical mediumship. I'm aware spirit side teachers in the past, have via this process made several attempts to encourage us all to change how we treat each other and other life forms including animals within our world. For instance Silver Birch, Red Cloud, White Feather. It's a long ardous journey but we must never give up hope.

[Carol and Mikey]

Skye,
I am new at all this . My comment directed to you was me, not Mikey. :) Would you call a premonition a warning from spirit? (Mikey told me I was being prepared/warned for what was to come. It was an attempt to prepare me.) And a prediction is strictly making specific statements about the future? :) I think I understand that a medium is the communicator between here and the spirit guide (has a direct connection to communicate), but a psychic (when predicting) is more specific to future events versus direct communication? Sorry if this doesn't make sense. :) Mikey gets hung up on issues with "fortune telling". He feels there can be harm in this to people. He wonders where this info comes from.
Carol
Carol

[WWE LOVER]

I don't think that kind of website would suit me....

It sounds more like a cyber bar with too many drunks, no closing-time and no bouncers .... It must fill a need, I guess, for the individuals who enjoy that kind of thing but I ain't one of 'em.

horses for courses

Well, a horse is a horse is a horse of course.

Andi if I make it out to Sherwood Forest, the first round is on me.

[WWE LOVER]

"Forums are the same way, and I visit some that are WAY WORSE THAN THIS. These aren't excuses; just simply telling you the way it is."

That's damning with faint praise..... For other forums to be, quote: "...way worse than this." this forum would have to be bad to start with....

More accurate might be: "Forums are the same way, and I visit some that are really bad" etc.

For my own part I've used websites which were not member-friendly at all, badly run, controlled by cliques and sometimes chaotic. My use of the past tense is deliberate - once I'd sussed out what poor websites they were, I withdrew from being an active member or even continuing to visit just as a reader.

One might wonder why others don't do similarly and I can only assume that they do like the things I don't.....

That's not true at all, mac. Nowhere do I say that this forum is bad to start with. You are just stirring up some sh*t.

But keep in mind that most things are a matter of perspective. So there may be people who think this site is bad, given that we see some petty arguments from time to time. But this site is, when it comes to being nice and civil, probably top 5% on the internet from what I see.

[Skye]

Skye,
I am new at all this . My comment directed to you was me, not Mikey. :) Would you call a premonition a warning from spirit? (Mikey told me I was being prepared/warned for what was to come. It was an attempt to prepare me.) And a prediction is strictly making specific statements about the future? :) I think I understand that a medium is the communicator between here and the spirit guide (has a direct connection to communicate), but a psychic (when predicting) is more specific to future events versus direct communication? Sorry if this doesn't make sense. :) Mikey gets hung up on issues with "fortune telling". He feels there can be harm in this to people. He wonders where this info comes from.
Carol
Carol

Hi Carol,

I realised your comment was coming from you and not Mikey, that's why I didn't add his name to my previous reply. :)

I suppose it depends on how you define a premonition versus a prediction which is of importance to you personally. Both could be said to work side by side as such in that you predict a certain premonition will occur. I can speak only of my own experiences. I never make psychic predictions and rarely give spirit predictions unless spirit say it in such a way whereby I don't realise they have done. More so, for reasons like Mikey suggests they can cause harm. Some people will live their lives in fear of what is to be, whereas other people will do their utmost to make a prediction come true.

The premonitions I've experienced come to me in the same way via my mental faculties as my mediumship. But they do not have the presence of a spirit communicator or another person, therefore, I perceive them to be a result of individual intuitiveness rather than directly from spirit. It may be that the energy of Spirit somehow influence our minds either in a dream state or through the means of ESP. And I'm led to believe many precognitive events usually denote warnings of impending disasters, where we tend to sense something doesn't feel right. Whereas imo a prediction or prophecy is foretold by an entity, whether it be of a human form or a spirit being.

When I communicate with Spirit, I don't communicate to a spirit guide. I'm having a two way mind to mind conversation with a person's loved one in the spirit world or afterlife. It's my understanding and experience that a psychic cannot communicate with a discarnate spirit. A psychic tunes into a living person's energy - normally the aura - to retrieve information about the person and then proceeds to relay it back to them. I can't comment on how psychics make their predictions but I suspect it's via intuition and using information gained from the recipient. Either way I feel they should be aware they could be wrong and must accept responsibility for their actions.

[Carol and Mikey]

Skye,
Thank you so much for this great explanation. I do believe I get it now! :) I know I am talking directly to Mikey as well without someone in between. But I cannot go outside the box on that. I will leave that for you and other true mediums. :) My hope with what has happened to me (because I was not like this at all before) is to help others know that love never dies, life is eternal, and we will see our loved ones again! Signs, dreams, and other type of communication is real and it is not a bad thing....like some people have been taught. There are many people with different gifts and hopefully the loving effort will bring forth good wisdom of what is important to all. :) Thank you again for being here!
Carol

[Skye]

Carol,

Everyone is an essential cog in the wheel of life, we each have something to offer. So, it matters not how we express our own individuality, it's being able to be of service to another that is of far greater importance. Thank you for your compliment. I would like to thank you and others for being here also.

As Mahalia Jackson sings in her song, "If I can help somebody" then it works for me too. :)

[mac]

That's not true at all, mac. Nowhere do I say that this forum is bad to start with. You are just stirring up some sh*t.

But keep in mind that most things are a matter of perspective. So there may be people who think this site is bad, given that we see some petty arguments from time to time. But this site is, when it comes to being nice and civil, probably top 5% on the internet from what I see.

I don't, and didn't, stir up ####.

Take a look at the grammar - 'worse' means something like 'more bad' - it's called the comparative form of the adjective. (worst is most bad, the superlative form of the adjective - you get the picture?)

So for anything to be worse than something else, the latter thing would have to be bad to begin with. I said it's damning with faint praise as this website isn't bad just because some folk may not like petty arguments (as you've suggested) etc. If some think that's 'bad' it might suggest they're inexperienced users or are very demanding or just being petty.

So other websites aren't worse than this website at all but they may just be badly run, have some ill-mannered members who dominate threads, people who swear, have multiple id's (as you've already said) for whatever reason, make fun of administrators etc. One might say those websites are 'bad' when it's down to certain unruly members and website staff who are unable to change things....

Quite plainly that doesn't apply in any sense to this website where good behavior is expected and good administration is seen at all time.

[WWE LOVER]

I don't, and didn't, stir up ####.

Take a look at the grammar - 'worse' means something like 'more bad' - it's called the comparative form of the adjective. (worst is most bad, the superlative form of the adjective - you get the picture?)

So for anything to be worse than something else, the latter thing would have to be bad to begin with. I said it's damning with faint praise as this website isn't bad just because some folk may not like petty arguments (as you've suggested) etc. If some think that's 'bad' it might suggest they're inexperienced users or are very demanding or just being petty.

So other websites aren't worse than this website at all but they may just be badly run, have some ill-mannered members who dominate threads, people who swear, have multiple id's (as you've already said) for whatever reason, make fun of administrators etc. One might say those websites are 'bad' when it's down to certain unruly members and website staff who are unable to change things....

Quite plainly that doesn't apply in any sense to this website where good behavior is expected and good administration is seen at all time.

Wow! The grammar police are out in full force today! What's the matter? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the spider web this morning?

And thanks for proving my point for me - that it's a matter of perspective.

Somehow though, I don't think you'll understand what I have said.

By the way, I welcome your negativity. That's why I was glad when you were unbanned for being the "worst" poster here at the time.

[Andrew]

Wow! The grammar police are out in full force today! What's the matter? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the spider web this morning?

And thanks for proving my point for me - that it's a matter of perspective.

Somehow though, I don't think you'll understand what I have said.

By the way, I welcome your negativity. That's why I was glad when you were unbanned for being the "worst" poster here at the time.

WWE LOVER, I've got say that, grammatically speaking, Mac is correct here. Something cannot be worse than something which is not already (at least somewhat) bad. Sorry but, it's not really a matter of perspective - that's just the way the English language works. :)

[WWE LOVER]

WWE LOVER, I've got say that, grammatically speaking, Mac is correct here. Something cannot be worse than something which is not already (at least somewhat) bad. Sorry but, it's not really a matter of perspective - that's just the way the English language works. :)

I agree. He is correct, grammatically speaking.

But life ain't all about grammar. It's more about perspective than grammar. Which is why some people will perceive this site as being "bad" while guys like me don't think it's "bad" at all. That's why I said there are sites way worse than this, for those who think this site is "bad" somehow.

I'll let you and mac worry about the hair splitting.

[mac]

Wow! The grammar police are out in full force today! What's the matter? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the spider web this morning?

And thanks for proving my point for me - that it's a matter of perspective.

Somehow though, I don't think you'll understand what I have said.

By the way, I welcome your negativity. That's why I was glad when you were unbanned for being the "worst" poster here at the time.


What's the matter? Nothing's the matter with me - how about yourself? You see my "negativity" when there isn't any - I'm actually just being pragmatic.

My ban was down to a misunderstanding but I'm pleased I was reinstated too. That's all in the past now....

I find you quite judgmental in your assessment of me however, viz: "Somehow though, I don't think you'll understand what I have said." Just because an individual doesn't agree with your sentiments and ideas doesn't automatically mean they don't understand what you've said. I can understand you pretty well (I reckon) although much of what you say doesn't apply to me and much of what you say I don't agree with....

By contrast, though, you've ignored my points about grammar which (as Andrew also pointed out to you) are factually correct. With a background of science, education and language I am analytical, I try to write correctly and language and communication are - to use the North American spelling - my specialty. I'm no expert but I do try to be concise and clear in what I write - where I fail it's not down to slovenliness....

I don't see any justification for my lowering of my standards just so I' write, or think, like certain others. I've always been an individual and at 65 I guess I'll likely stay that way now...

[mac]

I agree. He is correct, grammatically speaking.

But life ain't all about grammar. It's more about perspective than grammar. Which is why some people will perceive this site as being "bad" while guys like me don't think it's "bad" at all. That's why I said there are sites way worse than this, for those who think this site is "bad" somehow.

I'll let you and mac worry about the hair splitting.

Hair splitting? Being correct isn't hair-splitting except for those who are incorrect in what they say....:D

And so you didn't demur about my point about grammatical correctness! We're maybe making progress but you couldn't acknowledge accept the point when you wrote in response to me so there's still 'a ways to go' (using the N American plural form with the indefinite article....)

You're totally correct that life certainly ain't all about grammar but writing clearly about life is. One's perspective of life is so much more clearly understood when one writes about it in a simple and unambiguous way - as I see matters. Maybe that's my perspective, eh? ;) (oh, yes, we Brits also say "eh" It's not just the guys from you-know-where)

I'm not going to waste effort again on the bad/worse comparison but I will repeat that anyone thinking this particular website is 'bad' either has little experience or has a jaundiced outlook.

[plato2]

Post Removed by Administrators

[Andrew]

Mac, I have been a long time lurker, but decided to subscribe so as to reply to your posts.
I recall you making an issue when Lithuania posted all the grammatical errors being applied by Sylvia Browne. Funny how you now go on your rant about the importance of grammar.

I also recall you telling Lithuania to get a life, after this person posted various grammatical issues. Perhaps you should do the same now.

I don't think anyone here is impressed by the following fact:
"With a background of science, education and language ..."
For someone so highly educated, you seem to have a lot of free time on your hands...

Lithuania (yes everyone, it's her), you are way out-of-line. Mac's educational background is impressive and it is none of our (or your) business why he has "a lot free time." Do you not see how harmful and potentially devastating your remarks are? I'm not sure how you keep creating these accounts, perhaps through hacking, but I will put a stop to it. I cannot remove your post right now (I'm on my mobile phone) or ban you, but you will be banned and this post will be removed as soon as possible. I am replying to let other users know what's going on. I am also going to put your IP addresses on an international blacklist, so that everyone knows you're a spammer.

Mac was not ranting, unlike you, and you are once again disrupting this community! Why do you bother with these silly and pointless impersonations? I checked every new user account now against your IP address (and your general physical location).

[mac]

Mac, I have been a long time lurker, but decided to subscribe so as to reply to your posts.
I recall you making an issue when Lithuania posted all the grammatical errors being applied by Sylvia Browne. Funny how you now go on your rant about the importance of grammar.

I also recall you telling Lithuania to get a life, after this person posted various grammatical issues. Perhaps you should do the same now.

I don't think anyone here is impressed by the following fact:
"With a background of science, education and language ..."
For someone so highly educated, you seem to have a lot of free time on your hands...

What a duffer I am - I trust people to be honest. :mad: So this is ex-member lithuania back like a dog-with-a-bone. :rolleyes:

Man you gotta wonder at her persistence but I'm pleased to see that Andrew is on the case again.

[poeticblue]

What have I been saying. I knew she was a she all along. Only a female could cause this much commotion. (Hehe yes I can speak for myself on that one too).

Its time to put this thread to rest. Nothing but rudeness and crazy/weird things on this post. (And not weird in a good way).

[mac]

What have I been saying. I knew she was a she all along. Only a female could cause this much commotion. (Hehe yes I can speak for myself on that one too).

Its time to put this thread to rest. Nothing but rudeness and crazy/weird things on this post. (And not weird in a good way).

It might be a good thing to leave the thread where it is as it's an easy place for Andrew to check for bizarre behavior. It does seem to be attracting the people who most enjoy the rudeness etc. so maybe it's keeping them away to some degree from the serious discussion topics?

That's no bad thing in my view....

[TriciaA]

It's such a shame that this thread began as 'Fraudulent mediums/psychics' which now has 22 replies, most of which, has nothing to do with the main thread title.

[mac]

It's such a shame that this thread began as 'Fraudulent mediums/psychics' which now has 22 replies, most of which, has nothing to do with the main thread title.

You could always return it yourself to the original theme....

[Andrew]

What have I been saying. I knew she was a she all along. Only a female could cause this much commotion. (Hehe yes I can speak for myself on that one too).

Its time to put this thread to rest. Nothing but rudeness and crazy/weird things on this post. (And not weird in a good way).

Hi everyone! This new account has been banned. PoeticBlue, I think that you are right - it's time that this thread be laid to rest. I have just closed it. Mac, I get what you are saying, but this thread has just become an excuse for Lithuania to spam us.