Bible prophecy

[papajohn]

How do you explain the school of thought about The Tribulation,One World Religion,One World Government in lite of the afterlife evidence. There seems to be a whole culture out in the world expecting all of this to happen,because of Bible Prophecy. I personally don't like to get all caught up in that,but from the perspective of what is said on this forum of a non judge-mental God and that the only relevant part of the Bible is the words written in red,this culture absolutely has legs. Most scholars of this school of the Bible, scoff at people like us because we are "New Age". They laugh at are belief in spirit guides,at our higher consciousness and our belief in spirit communicating. Now, I haven't personally met my spirit guide,nor my higher self or even communicated with someone I lost. The debate intrigues me. I know we have some experts here who might want to tackle this. I do admit it flusters me to think we could be headed to a world like that.
Any takers???

[Cromulent]

You've touched on a topic that I've been reading about for quite a while now, papajohn. Please brace yourself, as I don't like to pull punches:

Next to the "Prosperity Gospel" cult, belief in an imminent "rapture" is probably the most poisonous clot of pseudo-Christian thought currently active in the United States. Those who are ensnared by the "rapture" doctrine are fully convinced that at any moment their earthly problems will all be whisked away, and all the people they hate most (who are therefore, obviously, enemies of God) will be condemned to an eternity in hell-- right after a gleeful session of taunting and gloating from those ever-so-loving Chosen People of God. All you really need to know about the merit of their ideas can be found in their vividly detailed and highly disturbing fantasies of what will happen when God punches the planet Earth's clock, as well as their downright joyous anticipation of watching everyone who doesn't believe in their version of fundamentalist Christianity roast in agony for all eternity.

There's also the issue of the environment: the majority of rapture-believers are convinced that the impending end of the world makes environmental conservation a pointless endeavor. Even worse, many seem to think that burning the Earth's candle at both ends is a sure-fire way to force God's hand, since he can't hold a seven-year tribulation on a planet that's incapable of supporting human life for that long. As a whole, belief in an imminent rapture seems to encourage social insularity, physical and financial recklessness, and a willingness to support monstrous behavior on God's behalf if it's deemed necessary for their fantasy to come true.It should go without saying that the biblical justifications for this doctrine are extremely weak and/or nonsensical, cherry-picked from all across the old and new testaments without regard for context or differences in translations.

Sorry for all the vitriol; I just really hate to see people get ensnared by such nasty religio-political brainwashing.

[papajohn]

Very well thought out explanation,Cromulent. Thanks. I have never been in that school and could not fathom a God that would allow this,but these guys are very passionate about it. One gentleman,L.A.Marzulli believes it is eminent,in fact calls it an unseen heavenly war being fought in another dimension that's about to spill over into our dimension. I guess the thing that intrigues me is the effort and time and passion that someone like him puts into this subject. What makes him out there and what we talk about here "normal" :)

[Roberta Grimes]

Wow, Crom, you and I (more or less) agree on something!

Dear PapaJohn, please don't worry about all this (non)Christian extremist nonsense. There is no afterlife evidence whatsoever that even hints that a Rapture ever will happen, that there is a tribulation coming, or that the appalling Left Behind books are anything but religious pornography. Let's tackle them one by one:

1) The Rapture idea came from the fevered dream of a nineteenth-century teenager. It exists nowhere in the Bible! Oh, there are bits in the Bible that you can twist to support the idea of a Rapture, but of course you can twist bits of the Bible to support practically anything. I am astonished and appalled that 150 years later there are adult clergymen who seriously preach that Rapture nonsense!

2) The OT Jews and NT Christians suffered tremendous persecution and troubles. When you read through the Bible, you see them over and over again calling down God's wrath on their tormentors. Anything in the Bible that talks about "end times" or "God's wrath" springs from such times of persecution, and it is understandable: they wanted the bad guys to "get theirs" at God's hand. This especially includes the Book of Revelation, the source of most of this "prophesy," which is arguably the ravings of someone driven insane by persecution. A God that according to the evidence has never judged nor shown anger to anyone in history, not even the most evil-minded folks who ever lived; a God whose love for us is far beyond our comprehension, no matter what we may do; and a God that tells us repeatedly that forgiveness is the core of what we are here to learn: could such a God possibly behave as these (non)Christians expect God to behave? Nonsense!

3) The "Left Behind" series and their ilk are pure evil. I haven't read any end-times novels, but the brief extracts that I have seen make my blood boil as nothing else does. They show Jesus - our Wayshower and Best Friend, who came to teach us perfect love and forgiveness - acting like an avenging warrior and destroying people whose religious guess was wrong in the most horrendous ways possible. Pornographic, in that it excites people's basest emotions. And pure, unadulterated, anti-Christian evil.

- If it is so obviously and provably evil and wrong and un-Christian, why do some clergymen preach this crap? Because it sells - pure and simple! You can make money if you first scare people and then promise to save them from whatever you have told them is a threat. If I convinced you that there was a deadly virus about to get you but I alone had the cure, wouldn't you give me money for revealing that cure to you? There is no evidence whatsoever of any sort of other-dimensional war, dear PapaJohn, and the afterlife levels are so closely entwined with ours that if there were anything wrong there we would immediately know it here. Each of us spends part of most nights there, for heaven's sake! But the despicable profit-mongers who preach this nonsense have no idea what reality is, and they assume that you also are ignorant. It is easy to fool the ignorant. It is impossible to fool those who love and trust God and who know the evidence-based truth.

I hope this helps, dear friend! Please don't listen to garbage, no matter how loudly it is preached. The truth is spreading now, and the truth will out!

[papajohn]

I knew you would have a great explanation. I don't listen or bye into this but it happen to be on a show that was on,it just made go hmmm, WWRT (what would Roberta think):)

[Andrew]

I knew you would have a great explanation. I don't listen or bye into this but it happen to be on a show that was on,it just made go hmmm, WWRT (what would Roberta think):)

WWRT? - I love it! :)

[Firebird]

There's actually a great series of articles by a practicing evangelical Christian where he systematically analyzes and demolishes the first couple of books in the Left Behind series, showing them to be completely awful from both a literary and a religious point of view: Right Behind (http://exharpazo.blogspot.com/2007/01/index-to-slactivists-left-behind.html)

[Andrew]

Firebird, I deleted the last post you posted on this thread because it was just something like "IIJJJJJIIIIJ III", and I assume it was a mistake. If it did have some meaning, just tell me and I'll restore it.

Just trying to avoid confusion. :)

[Roberta Grimes]

I knew you would have a great explanation. I don't listen or bye into this but it happen to be on a show that was on,it just made go hmmm, WWRT (what would Roberta think):)

PapaJohn, you really gave me a chuckle! I am trying to get my husband to adopt WWRT as letters to live by, but he has 39 years of practice in thinking that I don't know much ;-)!

[Carol and Mikey]

Mikey agrees with Roberta and Crom! There will be NO rapture. He also said Heaven has no patience for such BS! (Now that's a college kid for ya!!! HA HA!) Heaven knows there is an alternative motive for what these people say. The "rapture thought" is using fear to gain control of people. This information is absolutely not true! Go and enjoy life and do the best that you can! This is what Heaven wants us to do!
Carol and Mikey "in spirit"

[Andrew]

Hi all! I agree with everyone here - there is absolutely no evidence of a rapture. In fact, there is strong evidence against one. We are all God's precious and chosen people and so the glories of the afterlife will belong to us all.

I find it odd that people still believe in the rapture because Aas Roberta says, it really just started as a fantasy.