Spiritual Growth?

[Cromulent]

I've seen the term "spiritual growth" bandied about a lot on this forum lately, and I've even used it myself for the purpose of argument, but it occurs to me that I've never actually seen it defined in any useful fashion. So, would somebody mind stepping up? (Bear in mind that the definition should have some sort of meaning for those who aren't already convinced of the truth of your worldview.)

[Andrew]

I guess I'll step up to plate here...

I would define spiritual growth as being the process of learning patience and love and being able to control (and eventually annihilate) negative qualities such as anger and violence.

The above would be how I'd describe it to people who have trouble excepting the evidence that I take as fact. If someone already was rather excepting of the evidence, I would add that, ultimately, becoming spiritually advanced means seeing everyone as yourself and losing the ego and accepting that we are all the same Mind, the same God.

Does that make sense to you?

[Annie]

A lot of people say it's about forgiveness and I think that plays a big part. But I also think that being an empathetic and compassionate person, understanding why people do what they do and just being an overall good person are signs of being spiritually advanced. This is obviously a win-win because being this kind of a person would also make you more well-liked not only by others but also by yourself.

[vic smyth]

I would add that spiritual growth also has a lot to do with our beliefs/worldview about all metaphysical things (afterlife, God, etc.) evolving. Hindus believe that you can grow spiritually four ways; through service to humankind, through worship, through the intellect, or through meditation. Spiritual and moral growth seem to go hand in hand, but not vice-versa (there are plenty of moral materialists and atheists).

[Roberta Grimes]

This is such a wonderful question! As always, Cromulent, you are stretching our minds just by asking it ;-). If I were to try to answer your question, I would probably say something close to what Vita says above: spiritual growth seems to begin with learning perfect love and forgiveness, and it builds from there as the ego withers and takes with it all negative emotions. Here are two additional thoughts:

1) Advanced beings tell us that we cannot possibly understand spiritual growth while we are embodied. We can see the early stages of it, as Vita and Annie and Vic say above, but there are hints that everything we are doing here is basically spiritual kindergarten, and there is a process of spiritual development that goes right through a kind of spiritual college level, and even maybe spiritual graduate school! What seems to be important for us right now is learning to love and learning to forgive - and most of all, learning to forgive ourselves. These seem to be the hardest spiritual lessons of all, and once we learn them apparently it all gets easier.

2) I think it may be true that it is the process of learning itself that is most important for us. Perhaps learning to love and forgive are not destinations after all! Perhaps instead it is the process of practicing ever more perfect love and forgiveness that is most useful to us once we graduate to more advanced spiritual learning. A few people have said to me something like, "Okay, so I forgive everybody. I mean it! Does that mean I get to the top level?" I think the answer to that question is No. Someone who asks that question has come to understand the importance of forgiving everyone and everything. But what is going to bring him real spiritual growth is day after week after month after year of perfectly practicing that perfect forgiveness during all the trials of daily life.

Great question, Crom! Isn't it going to be fun for each of us to learn the answer ;-)?

[Annie]

Roberta, you say "everything we are doing here is basically spiritual kindergarten, and there is a process of spiritual development that goes right through a kind of spiritual college level, and even maybe spiritual graduate school!"

Can you tell us what you mean by that...because I would have thought that life on earth was more like college or graduate school (difficult and stressful) while the afterlife is more like kindergarten (fun and easy), albeit kindergarten for adults.

[Roberta Grimes]

Hi Annie! As best we can determine, earth-life is our most basic level of learning, upon which all more advanced learning is based. So It is basic not in terms of "fun and easy," but rather it is basic in terms of "you have to learn the alphabet before you can learn to read, and you have to learn to read or else the world of book-learning is forever closed to you." Learning to love and forgive comes first! And apparently our task here is to learn to love and forgive at a fairly advanced level, which is why so many earth-lifetimes are necessary and why some of our lessons here seem terrible and painful from our earthly perspective. But once we have that all down pat, we can begin to understand the more subtle and profound spiritual lessons that are best learned primarily in the Summerland levels. So, fortunately, where spiritual learning is concerned, high school and college look from here to be easy and joyful, when compared with this "difficult and stressful" kindergarten!

[Cromulent]

Okay, now we seem to be getting somewhere. What I'm getting here is that Spiritual Growth, in practical terms, is the process of learning to see beyond oneself and one's own needs to understand the basic commonality of humankind, and becoming aware of the gulf in understanding between each person's individual perspective that makes us capable of doing harm to one another without appreciating how it damages us as well. Basically, this seems to be an application/extension of the concepts in Kohlberg's stages of moral development (http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~ncoverst/Kohlberg's%20Stages%20of%20Moral%20Development.htm ). Have I gotten close to the mark?

As an aside, I don't really like it when I'm told that a concept is "incomprehensible in the mortal realm" or other such deflections. Context can have drastic impact on the meaning of a word or idea, but meaning can exist independent of context. I am unconvinced that there is such a thing as an idea that is un-conveyable or incomprehensible except in particular circumstances.

[vic smyth]

...Basically, this seems to be an application/extension of the concepts in Kohlberg's stages of moral development (http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~ncoverst/Kohlberg's%20Stages%20of%20Moral%20Development.htm ). Have I gotten close to the mark?

As an aside, I don't really like it when I'm told that a concept is "incomprehensible in the mortal realm" or other such deflections. Context can have drastic impact on the meaning of a word or idea, but meaning can exist independent of context. I am unconvinced that there is such a thing as an idea that is un-conveyable or incomprehensible except in particular circumstances.

The Kohlberg link reminds me quite a bit of Ken Wilber's work. My definition of spiritual growth the emphasis is more on experiencing the mystical, gaining insights intuitively, rather than an emphasis on the intellect or morality, probably more in line with Kohlberg's "STAGE 6: UNIVERSAL ETHICAL PRINCIPLES: The Prophet/Messiah." Morality seems to be a by-product of spiritual growth.

Experiencing the mystical (based mostly on what I've read) can often be "un-conveyable or incomprehensible". Mystics claim to experience things, usually in meditation, that they cannot put labels on, not even 'good' or 'bad'.