Impersonation?

[Wendygo]

Hopefully this will be easy to answer, because it's been nagging at me for a while: how can we be sure that a spirit we contact through a medium (or however it's done) really is who he/she says it is? I'm not talking about lying mediums here, but the spirit himself. Have they ever been known to try and pass themselves off as someone they're not?

[Andrew]

Hi Wendygo! This is a very good question. I'll do my best to answer it. If you go through the proper channels (i.e. professional mediums), you should be fine. Here are some tips that you should always follow when contacting the other side:

1. Always go through a professional medium:
It's always a good idea to go through a professional, reputable medium. Not just to avoid getting scammed, but also because true mediums have a higher vibrational level than amateurs, who may have no idea what they're doing. If you have a high vibrational level, you will attract spirits in the Summerland. No one in the Summerland is going to impersonate anyone. You can count on that because everyone who has earned entrance there is too advanced to bother with those types of pranks.

2. Never try yourself (unless you're a professional):
You yourself may have a great vibrational level, but you could still fail to attract Summerland beings. Professional mediums have special protections prayers that they always use before making contact with the deceased. They also usually put out a stern warning to low level entities thinking of fooling around. Normally, this is enough to ensure that only the correct person is contacted. If you try yourself, however, even this could fail. That's why ouija boards are never a good idea, because, without proper protection, they attract low-level entities. It is easier to get the attention of low-level entities because they are in the realm(s) closest to earth. The problem is though that even we earthly beings are more spiritually advanced than they.

3. Double Check:
A good medium can tell you several things about your relationship with the deceased that no one but you could have known. If your medium is the type that can speak directly with people in the Summerland, I would suggest you have him/her ask the deceased questions.

If you follow through with all of this, dear Wendygo, you should have no problems making contact with the correct person! I hope this helps!

[Firebird]

Hey, I've been meaning to ask... what's this stuff about "vibrational levels?" That phrase gets more confusing every time I read it. Is it meant to be an analogy for some kind of transcendent quality, or are these people/spirits actually experiencing some sort of rapid low-amplitude physical oscillation?

[Andrew]

Hi Firebird! In short, everything is really energy (even us), so everything vibrates. That's how Roberta described it in another question. The more spiritually advanced we are, the higher our frequency of vibration is. So, the physical universe, along with the seven afterlife levels are all in the same place, but they are vibrating at different frequencies, which is why they don't collide with each other. So, the highest vibrations belong to people in Level 7, and the lowest to the earth. I hope this helps!

[Annie]

Wendygo, I definitely this what you mentioned is common. I was listening to a seance with a dead person (this was using the voice box method with Leslie Flint which is way more legit in my eyes than psychic mediums) who mentioned that mediums get impersonators a lot, unbeknownst to them. I agree with Vita but I think another good rule of thumb is only try to communicate with people you were close to in life. For example, I wouldn't bother trying to talk to some distant great uncle who died because the less you know a person, the more easily you might be fooled by impersonators.

[Wendygo]

Hi Wendygo! This is a very good question. I'll do my best to answer it. If you go through the proper channels (i.e. professional mediums), you should be fine. Here are some tips that you should always follow when contacting the other side:

1. Always go through a professional medium:
It's always a good idea to go through a professional, reputable medium. Not just to avoid getting scammed, but also because true mediums have a higher vibrational level than amateurs, who may have no idea what they're doing. If you have a high vibrational level, you will attract spirits in the Summerland. No one in the Summerland is going to impersonate anyone. You can count on that because everyone who has earned entrance there is too advanced to bother with those types of pranks.

2. Never try yourself (unless you're a professional):
You yourself may have a great vibrational level, but you could still fail to attract Summerland beings. Professional mediums have special protections prayers that they always use before making contact with the deceased. They also usually put out a stern warning to low level entities thinking of fooling around. Normally, this is enough to ensure that only the correct person is contacted. If you try yourself, however, even this could fail. That's why ouija boards are never a good idea, because, without proper protection, they attract low-level entities. It is easier to get the attention of low-level entities because they are in the realm(s) closest to earth. The problem is though that even we earthly beings are more spiritually advanced than they.

3. Double Check:
A good medium can tell you several things about your relationship with the deceased that no one but you could have known. If your medium is the type that can speak directly with people in the Summerland, I would suggest you have him/her ask the deceased questions.

If you follow through with all of this, dear Wendygo, you should have no problems making contact with the correct person! I hope this helps!

I appreciate your candor here, but it seems a bit disturbing that the best ways we have to verify who we're actually talking to are so basic. I've always been a little nervous about mediums and psychics (one of my great-aunts got suckered out of basically everything she had by a phony psychic, about forty years ago), and these steps seem kind of easy to get wrong through desperation or carelessness. When you have a lot of emotional baggage cluttering up your vision it can be a little too tempting to overlook warning signs. Out of all of this, it seems like the most reliable thing is to pre-arrange some sort of code or signature phrase, right?

If I wanted to reliably locate a professional medium, is there a simple way to check? Are there medium-accrediting organizations or something?

[vic smyth]

Accredited mediums (http://www.windbridge.org/mediums.htm), though I have never try any of them.

[Andrew]

Hi again Wendygo! I don't believe that using a prearranged code would work. This is what Houdini was planning on trying, and he was never successful. I believe that Roberta had some theories on why using codes doesn't really work. Somewhere on this website, there is a Houdini thread. Check that out, my friend, I think it will provide you with some information on why codes don't generally work.

[Wendygo]

LOL, I think I know about that thread since I was the one that started it ;) I think the question of whether the code was actually the problem hasn't ever been settled, but I can understand why it might not work. That just leaves confirming facts about the deceased's life as the only way to be sure, and that's basically another way of confirming the identity by code (memorized patterns).

If only spirits had fingerprints...

[VioletRose]

LOL, I think I know about that thread since I was the one that started it ;) I think the question of whether the code was actually the problem hasn't ever been settled, but I can understand why it might not work. That just leaves confirming facts about the deceased's life as the only way to be sure, and that's basically another way of confirming the identity by code (memorized patterns).

If only spirits had fingerprints...

They'd probably need to grow some fingers first ;)

I really don't think you should worry about spirits impersonating one another, Wendygo. For the life of me I can't think of one good reason most would have for lying about who they are, and even the ones that might try to trick you should be pretty easy to figure out the first time they get some basic information wrong, without even having to probe them directly.

[Roberta Grimes]

Dear VioletRose, it actually is common for earthbounds to try to impersonate our loved ones, sad to say! People who use Ouija boards or try automatic writing often will attract negative earthbounds who try to convince them that they are dead loved ones. And if we don't firmly banish them - invoke God, order them to begone, and stop trying to summon spirits for awhile - these negative entities can move right in and make themselves at home. Indeed, some of the worst hauntings on record started as Ouija board activities gone wrong! Before you attempt any sort of communication, it is best to:

(1) Invoke spiritual protection. The Lord's Prayer or the Unity Prayer for Protection are good options ("The The Light of God surrounds me. The Love of God enfolds me. The Power of God protects me. The Presence of God watches over me. Wherever I am, God is!" is a handy short version).

2) Ask a test question or two before you converse. This is harder to do when you just hope to connect with any dead friend or relative who shows up, but it is essential. Sternly ask any spirit that you are not sure of for its name and its relationship to you, and break it off at once if you are at all uncertain.

Carol Morgan, who communicates with her son, Mikey, by pendulum, says that whenever she picks up her pendulum and it starts to move, she is careful to ask Mikey a trick question (the names of childhood dogs, for example). She says that there was one time when she forgot to do this, and the pendulum began to blather something about her father "going through judgment now." She immediately asked for the name of a childhood dog. The pendulum fell silent for a beat, after which it began to swing rapidly as Mikey spelled out, "Mom! That wasn't me!"

It is best just to avoid trying to contact spirits personally. The risk of attracting negative earthbounds is too great! Instead, consult with approved mediums if you want to try to talk with dead loved ones; and once you know that they are okay, simply now and then tell them that you love them as you go on and make the most of this lifetime!

[VioletRose]

I know you just told me to leave this to the professionals, but I've actually just been looking into automatic writing and I think I'd like to give it a try. What would be the safest way to go about this, apart from just invoking spiritual protection? Will I need to work directly with an expert, maybe?

[Andrew]

Hi VioletRose! I would strongly urge you not to try automatic writing on your own because, not only is it not safe, but the information you get from it is often not true. You see, when you do this you more often than not contact earthbound spirits who are at a lower spiritual level than even we are. They will often impersonate our loved ones and sometimes haunt us or possess or bodies. And, while it is rare, there have been fatalities reported from automatic writing and ouija boards.

That being said, if you insist on learning to use automatic writing, I would only do it under the guidance of a professional. At least then there will be someone to explain to you how to utilize some form of protection. Still though, it may not be completely safe. Some of the protection automatic writers use comes from their spiritual vibration level. I'm not sure if there is a way to tell if your level is high enough that it won't attract negative entities.

I realize this doesn't really say much, but I hope it helps!

[Annie]

How can spirits kill people though, I thought they didn't have enough energy to really harm anyone?

[Roberta Grimes]

Hello, dear Annie! What you say seems to be true: the more evil an entity is, in general the weaker it is. But when earthbounds are aware enough and malevolent enough to set out to do mischief, they can cause injuries or even deaths. This is not an area that I have much studied, but it is my understanding that these are the three primary ways that negative earthbounds can cause physical harm in those who are susceptible:

1) They can scare people. There have been cases where malevolent hauntings terrified people to the point where they suffered serious and even fatal accidents in trying to get away.

2) They can possess people. Those who are spiritually healthy have little to fear, but people who dabble in satanism or in other ways invite nasty spirits into their lives - and people who are addicted to drugs or alcohol - can weaken their spiritual defenses to the point where nasties can enter and possess their minds. This appears not to do any permanent harm - that body's death frees all its spirits, including the original occupant - but there have been cases where people were driven to commit suicide or murder by what were apparently possessing negative spirits.

3) They can spur addictions. It has been reported that the earthbound spirits of drug and alcohol addicts will tend to frequent places where these substances are being used, and if someone using their favored substance passes out as a result they can enter and possess that person. From then on, the living addict is fighting not just his own addiction, but also the obsessive addictions of all the earthbounds possessing him!

- I cannot say it strongly enough: never dabble in satanism or black magic, never become addicted to anything, and without strong spiritual protections never play with either Ouija boards or automatic writing. Trust me on this! You wouldn't have wanted to socialize with these nasties while they were alive, and you certainly don't want to share a body with them now!

[RudeAwakening]

Hello All,

I’ve been reading the forum for the last month or so and this topic has inspired me to join and tell a little bit about a personal experience that relates directly to the truly good advice Roberta and Vita have given here.

I’ll try to make this as brief and comprehensive as I can.

Approximately 15 years ago I was a practicing alcoholic and frequented an old local bar near my home. I was 34 years old at the time, no religious background of any kind, no knowledge of or sensitivity to the spirit world. I called myself agnostic. This was around 1994, the time period is quite relevant because there was no real internet then to go to for information, I didn’t even own a computer yet.

An unseen entity invaded my life during this time and I ended up fighting this thing for years. This was a battle initially far more threatening than my alcoholism. I was completely clueless of course and in the beginning I felt this huge expansiveness, my mind was working with noticeably increased sharpness and clarity, my eyes were brighter, I felt powerful, I knew something was going on but it felt great and I didn’t question it. I’m sure it won’t come as a surprise to some here what happened next.

This is the part I hope Ms. Grimes, Ms. Vita and perhaps others can shed some light on for me. I brought this up on a Ghost Hunters forum a few years ago and was heavily ridiculed by some clueless folks, particularly the skeptics. They hear a lot of tall tales on those forums, so it’s understandable. Anyway, when this thing got a good grip on me and I was at the height of my fear, my green eyes looked like fluorescents – they were unnaturally and noticeably bright- and would scare the crap out of people and me.

Brown eyes would have hidden it and blue eyes are always bright. But the green - looking in the mirror was literally terrifying. I use the term fluorescent because that’s what my Mormon electrician buddy told me I looked like. They were freakishly bright at times and couldn’t be missed. I’ve looked everywhere for information on this bright eye phenomenon, in conjunction with spirit involvement, and found nothing. Of course at the time many of the superstitious people at the bar thought it was a demon and I was a witch. I believed them. What did I know? I wasn’t too popular after that.

I’m trying to keep this short; I could easily write ten thousand words on the experience and how it affected my life. In short this thing changed the course of my life and had my circumstances been different and /or perhaps less help from guides or good spirits, it could have easily cost me my life. No doubt this thing was trying to kill me. I’ve read how powerless these negative earth bounds are but this turd seemed to feed off my fear and the fear of others around me that were aware of it. The more fear the stronger it seemed to get. It kept me awake at night. Sleep depravation became a serious issue. I would lie awake most of the night, my heart pounding out of my chest and maybe doze a few minutes here and there before bolting awake. It was indescribable.

Getting help seemed impossible, the circumstances were just too bizarre and seeking help seemed like it would be acknowledging the situation somehow. (Besides where would I go and what would I tell them?) I was young and truly confused and frightened. One thing that I felt instinctively was the need to stand up to it. This didn’t seem to be the consensus among others. I had some folks at the bar whisper to me, in their riddle-like way of talking about it, not to show strength. (Yeah, if you whisper and talk in riddles it can’t hear you - lol.) I can laugh now. It wasn’t funny then.

I never effectively got rid of it until I quit drinking regularly. I did build up a tolerance to it of course. I refused to let it win and Its determination was unbelievable. I hope I bore it out of its mind now. I couldn’t say whether it’s around or not anymore. I don’t look for it and practiced at tuning it out.

Other than ignoring that particular piece of spiritual trash, I am much more sensitive and aware these days. I consider myself to be somewhat enlightened spiritually. There’s a part of me that doesn’t completely regret this horribly frightening experience because of what it has brought me in the way of spiritual knowledge, awareness and interest in the subject. Life is strange. I actually wonder if I planned it. This is all so confusing.

Moral of the story of course is Roberta and Vita are seriously right; know one should invite spirit communication into their life on their own as a hobby. These nasty little earth bounds can do a tremendous amount of damage. They have no doubt killed many in one way or another. I do however go to a very good medium since losing my mother. That is a wonderful experience.

It wasn’t my intention to steal focus of the thread, but any input you can give me on this very confusing time in my life would be wonderful. I am stronger and wiser for it, but it was hell.

[Andrew]

Hi RudeAwakening! Welcome to the Afterlife Forums! I do believe you're correcting in saying that you have been possessed spirit. Indeed, what happened to you happens to many alcoholics and addicts, especially those who frequent the same bar or pub. It's marvelous to here that you've made as much progress as you have. Not many people could have figured out what was going on, and beat it!

I can certainly tell you that what describe is typical of possession in that people who become addicts are generally more susceptible. Typically, the possessor is someone who, during his/her time on earth, suffered from the same addiction and was never able to beat it. In your case, the spirit was probably an alcoholic who, at death, remained in the earthbound realm rather than progressing on the the afterlife, in hopes of satisfying his/her cravings.

What you say about the spirit feeding off your fear is another common theme with malicious spirits. Because they are so weak, the only way that they can truly get power is to be feared.

As for where the spirit is now, it's hard to say. If you no longer feel it's presence around you or in your body, then it's probably done with you. When you stopped drinking, it likely decided to move on to some other addict in hopes of satisfying its cravings. If you ever feel its presence again, pray to God for protection. Then say very sternly that you command the spirit depart at once (or something like this). It's sad but, since the medical community doesn't recognize spiritual possession, they can do nothing to help it but to declare the possessed non compus mentus, which does very little for actual problem. It's a shame because, if they just accepted it, they could help so many more people!

I am really glad that you've put your story up here because it will show people that this type of stuff does happen, and that is generally best to be careful (plus it's always great to have new contributors)!

-Vita
(P.S. I'm actually a man but, since our self/souls don't have real genders, I guess it doesn't matter too much!)

[RudeAwakening]

InAevumVita, (please accept my apologies for assuming you are female)

Thank you for your response. I too feel that the spirit has moved on looking for a more suitable victim. That by itself seems truly unfortunate as this spirit is clearly looking to cause trouble and misery. I would handle such a spirit differently today in hopes of rendering it harmless to others.

One of the things I thought might perhaps be unique to this case was how obvious this malevolent spirit made itself to others in my surroundings. In my immediate environment (work, home and the bar) its oppressing and harassing nature was able to affect others similarly to how it was affecting me. The more sensitive among them could feel it as I could feel it. The situation actually appeared to be escalating rapidly and individuals with normally less sensitivity were affected. I was deemed responsible as the catalyst.

I reluctantly left the new job my step father had gotten for me out of what seemed to me to be an absolute necessity. (Imagine trying to explain why you quit to a mother that has no knowledge of such things.) I won’t go into more details here as they are truly beyond anything I could have ever imagined up to that point in my life and most definitely and understandably not within the realm of what most people believe is possible. If anyone has any input on the bright eyes portion of my first post…….I have seen it in other people, just not to that extreme. I find it odd I can’t find anything about it.

I haven’t thought deeply about the escalating nature of this in years, but I am now wondering just how far something like this could go. As I mentioned I am deliberately omitting many details, but I feel as though many of the bad things that happen can be attributed to these spirits. As far as figuring it out and diffusing the situation I do feel some pride at the logic with which I was able to approach it with at times.

Regarding the medical community I am utterly appalled at their short sighted approach to such things. Society is truly at the mercy of orthodox materialism in the scientific community. Because of my experiences I have reached a point in my life where I am determined to make a difference in ways that I can. I applaud the efforts of this forum and am thrilled to see this information coming out the closet. Hooray for the internet. :D

[Annie]

Thanks for the info Roberta, and Awakening, wow that is awful. I'm glad to hear you got through that ordeal. We take the internet for granted nowadays, but I can't even imagine how hard it must've been to have to go through that without all this information easily at our fingertips. Anyway I'm glad you shared that story with us, that is so terrifying and I'm curious to ask more about it but I don't even know what to ask because it's so bizarre! I have to say, you sound like a smart guy and even though you had an addiction, you seem to know a lot spiritually. I agree, I hate that mainstream medicine doesn't recognize this sort of thing. That being said, I think there are therapists who can help people become unpossessed.

I've never heard of the fluorescent eyes phenomenon, that's amazing. It sounds like what happened must have changed your personality somehow and strained relationships you had with people you knew, even those who didn't seem sensitive to that kind of thing. I hope you were able to get things back on track but if nothing else, I'm sure it shocked you into quitting alcoholism...so many it all happened for the best?

[RudeAwakening]

Thanks Annie,

I may never find anything substantial in reference to the bright eye thing. I wouldn’t even bring it up if it weren't such an integral part of the experience, because frankly that’s where I lose most people. I notice that a spiritual medium's eyes can get very bright with spirit contact, but not frighteningly so.

The eyes literally made the spirit contact visible to me and others. No one would have really known I was under attack otherwise, which in itself amplified the situation considerably. The fear it generated in others is what really got the ball rolling. And, if I personally couldn’t see it in the mirror, I and others would not have figured out what was going on. I would have thought I was physically or mentally ill. I would have been confused and scared but my personal fear and the social rejection would not have reached the levels they did. It’s no wonder this thing didn’t want to let me go. Others could see it.

Anyway, they can’t see it anymore, not through me. Absurd as it sounds that wasn’t why I finally quit drinking. I eventually built up a tolerance to the spirit by not being afraid of it and kept on with my beer. When I finally did quit not only was there no more fear, but no more beer. It had to leave. Of course I didn’t understand the alcohol attraction as well as I do now, only that I suffered a little more from its “abuse” when I was drinking. I knew it couldn’t really hurt me by then. I was stupid.

You are right Annie, it was the most bizarre thing I could have never imagined happening to me. My circumstances allowed me to nurture myself and recover somewhat emotionally and psychologically. I will never be the same of course. It was just too weird. I can’t imagine having survived it under different circumstances.

If you are interested and have questions ask whatever you want. I am not shy about it. Nobody ever really wanted to hear about it before. There are witnesses to this in this city that I probably couldn’t get to talk about it to this day. The place I live and was born in 49 years ago attracts malevolent energies. Las Vegas Nv. If anyone from my area happens to read this and remembers it, they will know who it is.

[Roberta Grimes]

Dear RudeAwakening, thank you so much for trusting us with your story! It is harrowing and extraordinary, although this kind of negative possession is fairly common – and most of the victims and their families don’t even realize what is happening to them. Your account is riveting! For readers who don’t know much about spirit possession, what RudeAwakening describes above is exactly what it can feel like to be possessed, except that most victims are not perceptive enough to realize what is happening to them.

Simply put, spirit possession occurs when a dead person who has not transitioned to the afterlife finds a way to get through our natural spiritual defenses and gets inside a living person’s body. The most common negative earthbounds are addicts of some kind, but some are murderers or general lowlifes; and some are normal people who died suddenly out of time – perhaps in battle – and were therefore not properly met, so they don’t yet realize that they are dead. It is likely that a lot of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is caused by the spirits of people who died in the heat of battle so they jumped into a nearby soldier whose defenses were down (perhaps due to anger or terror), and then they kept fighting forevermore. Earthbound spirits differ tremendously in their degree of awareness of their condition, from those which simply repeat normal events of daily living for centuries, to those which are fully aware and eager to cause trouble. Unfortunately, RudeAwakening temporarily harbored one of the latter kind!

So much of what you say, dear Awakening, rings true!

1) Malevolent spirits feed on fear and anger. The more evil a disembodied spirit is, the weaker it is, and that is a problem for them. To avoid shriveling into inertness, they typically try to cause negative emotions – anger, fear – because they are able to feed on those energies. Shadow men, for example are nasties that are so weak that they are reduced to hiding in children’s bedrooms to try to give them a fright!

2) Glowing eyes are a sign of malevolent possession. When I was a child I can recall seeing that odd glow in the eyes of two relatives who were addicted to alcohol (one was my own father) – although I didn’t know what it was at the time. The most common kind of malevolent possession happens when someone who is addicted to drugs, alcohol, or sex (yes, that too!) chooses to stay as an earthbound so he can enjoy his addiction without interference. Without bodies, of course, they cannot satisfy cravings, but when living addicts are indulging – and especially if they pass out – their spiritual defenses become so weakened that earthbounds are able to possess them. The eyes of the victim no longer look like his usual eyes. If eyes are windows to the soul, then suddenly we are looking in at a nasty soul indeed!

3) Starving a possessing spirit will often get rid of it. When you say that you couldn’t get rid of the negative spirit until you stopped drinking, dear friend, that is absolutely typical. And the fact that it was no longer able to scare you also helped to starve it out! One day when I was twelve my father decided to quit drinking “cold turkey” – and very quickly he became a different and much nicer person, one that I never had known before. His glowing eyes were gone, and so too were his delusions of grandeur and his impatience and his awful temper. Especially in the most common form of possession – that which happens in addicts – possessing spirits won’t stick around if they cannot prod their host into continuing to drink or do drugs. But because the host perceives each spirit’s urgency as his own, an addict with a few possessing spirits can find it almost impossible to quit.

4) Spirit possession can get much worse. Because each possessing spirit is a disembodied person, and because their reasons for being earthbound can vary so much, it is difficult to generalize. But nearly all possessing spirits are hungry – that is why they possess people in the first place! – and whatever it is that they want, they can work up a terrible frenzy to get it. One possessing spirit can also attract more, so each nasty’s hungers further compound the host’s cravings – and all the while, most of those who are possessed and their families have no idea what is going on. Sometimes the cravings are for substances, but they also can be for violence or causing fright or inflicting pain – the only thing these cases have in common is that the host’s mind is no longer in control. There is no telling how many poor souls have picked up a nasty spirit or three and had their lives hijacked to the point where they ended up in prison or even executed for crimes that – other than technically – they did not commit!

5) Possessing spirits fear God. This, as much as anything else, keeps them earthbound. They have turned against the light, and now that they are dead they seem to know that they have backed the wrong team; but they don’t yet understand that God will not judge them, so there is a sense about them of hiding out. They often have the cranky, resentful air of people who have been cheated into hopelessness, and now they just want to get what they can get! If you had wanted to end your particular demon’s tenure as an earthbound, Awakening, probably the best way to do this – as strange as it sounds – would have been to look in the mirror, right into those eyes, and tell the demon that you love it and God loves it and there is no judgment or punishment waiting so it can safely go into the light. Maybe talk to it about what the Summerland is like, and tell it to look around for loved ones waiting to escort it home. Doing this successfully would probably have taken more patience than most of us have, but eventually – if you were stubborn enough – the earthbound spirit would have either abandoned you or surrendered to the light. And either way, you would have been rid of it!

I realize how frightening all of this seems, but most people have nothing to fear from earthbounds. It’s just important to keep your spiritual defenses strong! You must:

1) Strive to be spiritually healthy. There are myriad ways to do this, but the best way is to recognize that you are here to learn to love and forgive, and put your whole heart and soul into learning those lessons.

2) Never dabble in Satanism or black arts. Some young people think it is cool to play with evil, but in reality it is no fun at all and it can be extremely dangerous. There are earthbounds always looking for susceptible minds, and would-be Satanists head their list. Just keep remembering that the more evil a spirit is, the weaker it is! You don’t want to hang around with losers, do you?

3) Never be addicted to anything. Not only does being addicted steal your money and your health and your relationships and your time, but it makes the sort of awful experience that RudeAwakening describes above a lot more likely. And if you were to die while you were addicted, you might very well choose to be an earthbound yourself, which means subjecting yourself to ages of misery!

4) Stay away from Ouija boards and automatic writing. Amateurs who are working at summoning spirits are like beacons to self-aware earthbounds. They will impersonate your dead loved ones and play with your mind, and if you are very unlucky they will scare you enough to get you to weaken your spiritual defenses, and then they will possess you. If you really feel called to try automatic writing, then do it under the supervision and control of an experienced psychic medium.

5) Don’t let them scare you. Remember that these dudes are weak! There is no way they can physically harm you. Read again what Awakening says above about the fact that his demon was trying to scare him and his loved ones. If you fully understand how weak earthbounds are, then you will draw a deep breath and calmly tell the shadow man or the bogus Ouija board relative to get lost. If they can’t make you afraid, they have no power over you!

Dear RudeAwakening, I can identify with your frustration with clueless, matter-bound medical folks! In fact, reality is spirit-based and not matter-based. Even many of what physicians think are matter-based problems actually are caused by mental or spiritual issues. Medical doctors today are like the primitive practitioners of old, diligently bleeding their patients to balance their humors and with no idea of what they are doing. They cause a tremendous amount of suffering.

Just FYI, spirit depossession therapy has been shown to be effective at curing longstanding PTSD in Vietnam War veterans. Some of them harbor many spirits of soldiers still living the heat of battle, both Americans and Vietnamese, and simply coaxing each spirit one by one to notice his waiting relatives and enter the light has been enough to cure some victims altogether. But at the insistence of the mainstream medical community, many states now outlaw this practice. They thereby forbid to those poor sufferers the only therapy left that might help them.

I don’t know what you will be doing next, dear Awakening, but I urge you to follow wherever your heart leads. With what you know, and with your desire to be of help, you can do a great deal of good in the world!

[RudeAwakening]

Wow, what an awesome post Roberta.

I’m sure you can imagine how many years I’ve been waiting to hear all those kind understanding words from someone. And, bless you for using the term “Glowing” in reference to the bright eyes. I was once laughed off a forum for using that term, even though it is the most accurate description by far. The female bartender once literally screamed in fright and ran in the back room when I walked in after work one day. In time, weeks or months maybe, she became curious and walked up and stared right at them in curiosity.

It was definitely a battle of wills with this thing and I learned to function with it in my head and partially drown out its BS. I never did quite work up the courage to stand in front of the mirror and look straight into those eyes and deliver a speech however, regardless of the strength I had accumulated against it. I wouldn’t have known what to say anyway. I thought it was a demon. In time (when I would drink) I would make fun of it but never eyeball to eyeball in the mirror. I believe I could do that now, but I’m not inviting it back.

I also feel that I must have been getting spiritual help against this intruder. I instinctively became increasingly aware of how to handle it and weaken it. I understood its motives without anyone ever telling me. In fact most of what people were telling me was wrong. I had to trust my own instincts over these older learned masters that hung out at the bar. I didn’t want to think about what might happen if I was wrong. All of this took time of course, and being a drunken fool, it went on for years. It seemed logical to me that whatever it was could only dominate me if I let it. The battle of wills seemed apparent and obvious. Everything you talked about in your post I seemed to pick up over time, except how to get completely rid of it.

Temporary sobriety didn’t affect it, because it would just wait around and continue to harass. It never made it obvious what it needed. So, I didn’t really identify or didn’t want to associate long term sobriety with its permanent exit. With my increased deliberate indifference to it, in time it had learned to lay low and not make itself overtly apparent until it was party time. I used to think it was stupid, now I realize how smart it was. I was never sure if it was human or a demon in the biblical sense. It wanted me to think it was a demon. Now I realize it was just some sorry dead schmuck I’d like to slap a few times real hard. But I have more pity for it now.

I feel odd pouring all this out but it’s been such a long time coming. Again thank you for the wonderful post Roberta, I’m going to save those words I’ve been waiting so long to hear. And thank you Annie and Vita for your kindness and understanding. All is well now and I will turn my unusual life experiences into benefit for others. The divine spirit world isn’t the least bit shy these days with their guidance and signs. It won’t be hard to tell which way to go with this. They are very obvious and present in my life now for reasons I think I understand. I seem to easily find where I need to be.

Take care all. I look forward to further correspondence here. I am female by the way but worked as an electrician for 20 years and drank with the boys, so possibly a bit more aggressive in some ways than most girls. That’s come in handy a few times. :D

[Andrew]

No worries, RudeAwakening! I just wanted to clarify. You're more than welcome for my answer. I just wish I could have been of more help. Spirit possession is not really my area of expertise, but I'm really glad that Roberta knew more than I!

[Annie]

Oops, sorry for assuming you were a man Awakening. :) Well, I guess one thing I'm curious about is if you ever heard voices of this spirit in your head, or did it mostly manifest itself by making you more aggressive and making your eyes glow?

Very informative post, Roberta! I can't believe depossession therapy is outlawed though, that is ridiculous. I can see being frowned upon, but outlawed? It's not like it does anyone any hard. I feel so bad for people who want to under go it but can't...I guess they have to travel to another state. But like you said, most people wouldn't even consider that they're possessed, they would just assume that they have mental problems.

I think it's such a shame that this is possible, becoming possessed. You'd think we'd be built a little bit spiritually stronger. I know that it's probably one of those life lesson things, but I just think this is too risky and could drive people to depression, suicide, or murder like you mentioned without really having control of their own minds.

[RudeAwakening]

How it manifested itself is a great question Annie and really quite interesting if you can get past the horror of it and study it objectively. It was able to manifest itself in several physiological ways, which I’ll elaborate on in detail.

As far as its spirit voice in my head that’s considerably more subjective and hard to nail down as well. But, what I can say about that is I could definitely feel it trying to push its way into my head. You’ve seen people or kids cover their ears and say things like “La La La - I can’t hear you.” When I could feel it pushing I would busy my brain with something repetitious like a song lyric over and over again.

In a mind that’s fighting to hang on to reality it can be really hard to tell what thoughts you are and are not generating, but I seem to recall some pretty horrible thoughts that I don’t think I generated myself, but that’s where the subjective part comes in. This was 15 years ago too and I was trying not to listen.

Its physiological manifestations were far more evidential in nature and this is where it gets pretty scary. It must have continually been able to build up strength and energy reserves from my own fear and the fear it was creating in the people around me. That part is a whole other chapter in the saga so let me just stick with the manifestations. I just wanted to elaborate a bit on how I believe it got so powerful.

In the beginning, it could mentally sort of shut me down for a short period of time. It was like shutting off a switch. One friend said to me when this happened “It’s obviously back.” I would just sit there sort of frozen in a sort of fear and mind based paralysis. It was weird. I’ve seen this happen to other people too.

What’s interesting about the manifestations I’m describing is I eventually built up a tolerance to them and they became less effective. I also don’t have the slightest idea how it did any of these things except that it was related to energy gained through strong emotion or weak defenses / alcohol.

The other real bad one was the sleep depravation. My heart would literally beat out of my chest all night long. Someone did say to me that “it’s all in the heart beat.” What they meant by that I have no idea. People weren’t real forth coming in their input. To this day I find that unbelievably cowardly. Anyway, there was some connection between this monkey and my heartbeat at night. This went on and off for months. I left the high profile job where it was feeding off others in the department and this particular manifestation weakened some.

That pretty much sums up the manifestations for the worst of it. Time went on and I went back into construction with my roommate where I could hide and heal. It was still around of course because my roomy and I would drink heavily. And that was when it was able to really affect aggression levels. As far as my personality, I was very psychologically unstable during those years and with the drinking, I really can’t say what subtle negative activities it was up to. It didn’t have near the power it did in the beginning, so having survived the initial battle I didn’t pay much attention to the rest of it. I just knew it was around.

I do remember one audible manifestation that will make your toes curl. I will certainly never forget it. During the height of the activity and my fear, when I would use the bathroom at night it was able to make scratching sounds that sounded like they were coming from below the tile. Try hanging on to sanity with that going on. I’ve had a decade to get over the worst of this, so it’s not a hard thing for me to discuss. I don’t anticipate any further trouble with malevolent spirits in this lifetime.

I think these nasty earth bounds are responsible for a lot of the misery on this planet. Again, maybe if “modern science” recognized these issues, they would be less of an issue.

[Roberta Grimes]

Dear RudeAwakening, it is wonderful of you to be willing to share so much of what you experienced! Spirit possession was one of the last things that I accepted as true - I didn't want it to be true, and I resisted it for years. However, there is a lot of evidence that it doesn't just happen, but in fact it is common. Most of those who harbor a spirit or two are not much aware of what is going on, especially since the possibility of becoming possessed is not widely known - but they have alien-seeming (and often evil) thoughts and desires, and they suffer the sorts of creepy problems that Awakening outlines so well above. Every spirit is a unique human being, so every case of possession is unique. I want to add just two more points to my epic-length post above:

1) Spiritually healthy people are at no risk of being possessed by an earthbound spirit. I want to emphasize that! Our natural spiritual defenses are fiercely strong, and the kind of earthbound spirit that wants to possess us is weak. As Awakening shows us above, as soon as she stopped being afraid of it the thing kind of shriveled. We can talk about how to ensure your spiritual health if you like, but if you are reading these words you probably are the kind of person who is already in pretty good spiritual health and growing spiritually ever healthier.

2) Every possessing spirit is a human being. I have never seen any evidence of a powerful satanic being set in opposition to God, and since evil is weak while good is strong (sounds corny, I know, but it's basic spiritual physics), if there were a real devil it would be utterly helpless. There is some evidence that possessing spirits can be parts of dead people, which is a whole nother topic to discuss; but the evidence is strong that every earthbound spirit and every demon is in fact a dead human being gone wrong.

You're right, dear RudeAwakening - nasty earthbounds are responsible for a tremendous amount of misery. And they are also miserable, themselves - it is no fun to be a disembodied addict and terrified of being found and crushed by God. Every one of them is a powerful eternal being who is much beloved by many people and is God's infinitely precious child. Think of the tragedy of that!

[RudeAwakening]

Thank you Roberta

Being able to finally share this in an accepting and understanding environment is helping to fill a void and bring a greater sense of peace to that truly peculiar and terrifying time in my life. I have of course come to terms with it as best I can over the years, but it wasn’t something anyone else understood. No support group for the recovering possessed.

Your comment about spirit possession, being the last thing you reluctantly accepted as true, is understandable. Nobody wants to believe it or hear about it. I encountered two basic groups of people, with a few exceptions, the spiritually fearful and the laugh out loud skeptic.

Your posts on the subject are the first I’ve ever encountered that so accurately reflect the conclusions I came to over the years. To have those conclusions validated through your own research is very satisfying for me. You have also provided me with much information I wasn’t aware of. With the up close and personal I had with this creep over the years I definitely had plenty of time to study it.

I agree with the tragedy of its existence you spoke of in your last few sentences. I do have some empathy for it when I consider its circumstances. However, spiritually I have not evolved enough to be able to forgive at this time. It would have killed me if it could have. It was malicious and vicious, I was socially ostracized, people thought I was evil or crazy; it changed the course of my life. I’ve been permanently damaged by this thing. I don’t see it as human. To me it’s a monster.

With what I understand now about spiritualism and the afterlife, I will eventually forgive it for my own personal growth and its. But its willful intent is still a crime to me.

Thank you for all your input on this Roberta. It has meant a great deal to me. I’ve literally been waiting 15 years for it.

[Annie]

Thanks Awakening for sharing this, you seem like a very rational person and the way you write puts this in terms that are easy to follow. I've been to forums like the ones you mentioned, they just sounded like a lot of twelve year olds trying to one up each other with scary stories and anyone who had a differing opinion or said anything out of the ordinary. I know that there are a lot of trolls on the internet, and this forum miraculously hasn't attracted any...I think maybe that's because this place is so drama-free and full of facts.

What a nightmare though, it's amazing that you went through that. The worst thing about this not being accepted by the mainstream world is it must have made you feel so alone. I think Roberta's right though, I was the same way, I didn't want possession to be possible so I refused to believe it because if I believed it, it would just end up stressing me out. I think the way you eradicated this thing shows how spiritually strong you actually are though. Most people wouldn't even realize they're possessed, although in a way, maybe the glowing eyes was a good thing because it helped you realize that there was something else inside you. Who knows, if it hadn't been for that, maybe you would have just blamed the alcohol or though you were going crazy. It's almost too bad that every possessed person doesn't have glowing eyes because it could be a giveaway of whether there's another entity inside you or if you just need to see a psychiatrist or what.

Roberta, you just confirmed what I always that. That demons are just malicious dead people. I have to admit, I'm curious about how you said "possessing spirits can be parts of dead people" can spirits split and break off like that?

Oh by the way Awakening. I really don't blame you for not being able to forgive that thing yet. I have a hard time with this too. I know that forgiveness is for our sake and not the other person's, but sometimes I feel that if someone has wronged you, you have to feel some anger towards it in order to move on. Not so much anger that it consumes your life...but enough that you know how to avoid letting someone wrong you the same way again in the future.

[RudeAwakening]

Possession is such a strong word. I personally never actually considered it or accepted it as a possession. I always viewed it as though I was being harassed, stalked by this thing. Maybe I was just fooling myself and the glowing eyes and other physiological manifestations clearly define it as such. When I think of possession I think of someone that has no control over their actions or behavior.

Perhaps being aware of it and fighting it made its attempts to manipulate and control less effective. In the beginning that resistance may have been what led it to its increased and more visible malevolent behavior – such as the sleep depravation. This is all just speculation really. In the quieter years that followed (after its failed attempt to drive me to an early grave) it would still come around when I was drinking but maintained a lower profile overall as if intentionally to avoid detection. All this is just speculation based on its behavior.

There are undoubtedly a great many people out there harboring less obvious earth bounds and are negatively influenced by them. If this thing hadn’t been so obvious it would likely have been far more successful in its manipulations. I used to analyze my behavior regularly to try and detect any influence. I do white light work if I feel I’m attracting energies and have no real fear of them anymore. Like Roberta said as long as you are spiritually healthy they can’t mess with you.

You are right that the glowing eyes helped to expose this turkey, but they also helped it to gain considerable power for a while, because the obnoxiously bright green color was so obvious. With dark eyes, no matter how pronounced it is, I don’t know that it could be detected, certainly not enough to identify an alien spirit.

I have seen other bright eyes here in Vegas and other people temporarily affected by similar mind inhibiting type symptoms in group situations such as bars, poker rooms late at night, that sort of thing, making it obvious there’s negative energies or entities around. We always thought they were evil, demon type entities, but I suppose they are probably just a bunch of cranky earth bounds that roam this city. That actually makes sense, gambling, drinking, old mob Vegas. No wonder Vegas always seems so hot and evil; there are likely massive amounts of addicted and criminal type earth bounds roaming this city. I should have figured that out before. :o

[Roberta Grimes]

Dear Awakening, has it occurred to you that your possession might have been a forgiveness lesson? I have never heard of anyone deliberately planning a possession into a lifetime, but it makes perfect sense – it is the sort of thing that a cheerfully ambitious pre-birth being might want to try as a great forgiveness lesson. Here are my reasons for suspecting that it was planned:

1) It happened at the right time in your life. A lot of our worst challenges are planned into our young adulthood, when we are strong enough to handle it and we have a lifetime in which to overcome and benefit from it.

2) You figured out what was happening. Your degree of awareness of the being who was possessing you is highly unusual, from what I can determine. Most possessed people are clueless! But you were able to recognize and personalize him (let’s say “him,” since most possessing spirits seem to have been male in their last lifetime). That means that you have the opportunity to forgive not just the experience, but also the being himself.

3) You talk about being unable to forgive him, but expecting to do that eventually. That looks like a guide-prompt to me. It is likely that your guides are coaching you during your nighttime visits with them and you are saying, “Yeah, sure, great!” and then waking up and finding that once again the pain that being caused you is more prominent in your mind than the need to forgive him. But the knowledge of your need to forgive him is there!

Your forgiveness opportunity includes all the people who stupidly ridiculed you. They had no idea what was going on! Until mainstream science begins to grasp the true nature of reality, you cannot blame them, any more than Jesus blamed the clueless fools who condemned Him.

I understand that you are probably thinking right now that I must be crazy. But forgiveness is not for them, dear Awakening – forgiveness is only for you! While you still hold the slightest grudge against any of them – including the demon – you are hampering your own spiritual growth. And when you are at last able to forgive them all, you will feel whole and healthy and glorious beyond anything that you have ever felt in your life. And invincibly powerful. And free!

If you feel that the time is not yet, then please forgive me for prodding you. What you went through was horrendous, and only you know what makes sense to you now. But if you want to try it, here is what I think is the easiest way to forgive the unforgivable:

1) Remember that everything that happens to us is either love or a call for love. Everything! This statement comes from A Course in Miracles, and I am more and more certain – as surprising as this seems – that it is wisdom. Your possession experience was a call for love from everyone involved. Including your demon.

2) Say the forgiveness mantra for each of them at least once each day. Make a list of all the names of those who ridiculed you, and put your demon at the top of the list. Then sit quietly, and one by one call each of them into your mind and think or say, “You are Christ, pure and innocent. All is forgiven and released.” Try to mean it as you say it. At first you will find this hard to do, but if you make the time to do it daily you should begin to find that what had been intense feelings surrounding this whole experience will begin to lessen in the same way that fire turns to ash. And you will start feeling better.

3) Pray for all of them. If it were me, I would pray for those who ridiculed me in a group, just blessing them and asking God to help them grow spiritually. And then I would pray for the demon in particular, asking God to bring him help and healing and to take him into the light.

I hope that you are still speaking with me, dear wonderful RudeAwakening! Please know that the only thing important in this is your own spiritual growth and your own best happiness. I know that everyone who reads these words joins me in sending you love and hugs!

[RudeAwakening]

Well of course I’m still speaking to you dear lady. Your input here is huge. I know the goods when I see it. :) I had only my own interpretations and conclusions prior to this, in addition to the uninformed opinions of a few others. As far as my limited research, my experiences didn’t seem to really show up anywhere, the bright eyes for example – zip. I had learned how to keep the nasties away from me and there were other things I was more interested in researching, like the afterlife, especially after my mother passed. It was that research that brought me here to benefit from your very valuable input on my old trauma.

In my own research into spiritualism and the after life I had read on several occasions that we somewhat plan our life experiences; and it has occurred to me that I may have done that to myself. Initially it was a big stretch for me. But, after the recent extensive discussions about the experience on this board, the thought has been nagging at me. Right now I’d put the odds at about a coin flip.

It’s possible I may have come to the wrong conclusions about the lessons I was supposed to learn from it. It always seemed likely to me that it was some kind of lesson, it just didn’t occur to me back then that I may have enrolled myself in the class. I wasn’t aware of our involvement in such things.

The forgiveness aspect had definitely not occurred to me. I was more focused on the spiritual expansiveness that resulted and is continuing to develop. I have an enormous sense of spirit in my life and the contact / signs I get are presumably out of the norm. I’m not a medium by any means, but that world is very real to me. I can feel it. If there’s a purpose to that I’m clueless to it.

It’s very possible forgiveness could be one of the most important lessons in this life for me. I am so glad you brought that up. I would have never figured that out. There are a couple other very specific details about my life that would point to forgiveness being the main reason for all the crap in this life. I’ve taken a lot of abuse from people for various reasons; I worked in a man’s trade. Social rejection in more than a few areas has caused me not to like people very much and withdraw from society. I’m still a hermit. I’ve only recently decided to give the human race another chance as I feel I can now be less sensitive and take things less personally.

If you have any other thoughts on this Roberta I am all ears.
Thank you again dear.

[Roberta Grimes]

Dear Awakening (which is a better name for you ;-)!), I just want to stress for you a couple of things:

1) Nobody knows very much about spirit possession. Probably about .08% of the population has seen enough evidence to even wonder about it, and most of us - like Annie and me - have for so long fervently hoped it wasn't real that we have ignored a lot of evidence along the way. Looking back now, I wish I had paid better attention! Instead, very early in my research I developed a short-list of things that I was seeking evidence about, and then I added items to the list as they occurred to me and took items off as I became confident that I understood them. The whole idea of spirit possession dawned on me as an issue only in about 2003, or whenever it was that I read William Baldwin's wonderful Healing Lost Souls. (I recommend that book to you, Awakening!) It got me started reading other books about possession, and I must have slapped my head a hundred times as I saw ever more completely that (a) spirit possession fits with what we know about death and the afterlife, and (b) the fact that so few people know about it causes unimaginable suffering. You should read as many good books as you can on the subject (check out The Fun of Dying study guide on its website (http://funofdying.com/) - I think there are a couple of books on the subject there, and the listed books that you read will in turn lead you to other good books.) But nobody on earth is an expert on this subject. And you, dear friend, are uniquely positioned to do a great deal of good by becoming that first expert!

2) Life-lessons often are complex. In my experience, nearly all life-lessons emphasize learning love and/or forgiveness, but if you are a more advanced being - and I suspect that you are - then there likely are lessons there for you to learn which are more subtle, and are perhaps not even fully understandable while we are embodied here. But love and forgiveness are our core lessons! Just keep in mind the fact that the spirits who are most desperately trying to help the Holocaust perpetrators on the outer darkness level of the afterlife are reportedly their own former victims. If those victims can love and forgive, dear wonderful Awakening, then so can we all!

3) Some of the big events of our lives are less lessons than they are prodding events. I'm sure that my two experiences of light (at 8 and at 20) were such events for me - if they hadn't happened, I would not have spent the rest of my life trying to figure this all out. And your episode of possession may have been meant - even beyond its more immediate lessons - to start you on a path of investigation and learning which will fit you for some greater purpose. Pay attention to the first thoughts in your head each morning! Our guides generally reveal our life-plans only just a bit at a time, but if you had planned to do something with what you have been learning, then gradually that is going to become clearer to you.

- I will be getting on a plane shortly, and won't be able to come back to the forums until Saturday evening (unless I can find time at JFK, but somehow there never is time there). Meanwhile, many hugs, dear wonderful friend!